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Forums - Politics Discussion - Does Obama deserve to be re-elected?

 

Does Obama deserve to be re-elected?

Yes 77 42.78%
 
No 78 43.33%
 
Undecided 25 13.89%
 
Total:180

I never vote democrat. I want smaller government not a bigger one that wastes even more of my money. The problem is that the Republican party wastes my money too. I wish the Tea Party was real party with a viable candidate, because all they care about is not wasting my money.



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Kantor said:
gergroy said:

Personally, I am not excited about either option this year.  I was all for Obama 4 years ago when he ran on a platform of hope and change.  However, very little has changed and the changes havent always been better.  Now, Obama is running on a platform of look how bad this guy is, I can do better than him.  Isnt that sad?  Shouldnt he be talking about the change he wants to bring?  

Now, I'm not saying romney is much better, his platform is the same as Obamas.  Basically, my question is does Obama actually deserve to be re-elected?  If so, why isnt he telling us why?

It's not even that. It's "look how rich this guy is" and "look at how this guy did his job which I find morally wrong".

Seriously, if you're going to attack Romney, there are plenty of legitimate ways to do it. I'm surprised he hasn't attacked Romney for being a Mormon yet, at the rate he's going.

That's been my thoughts as well.

Plenty to attack Romney on... yet he's going with the shit he shouldn't attack Romney on because they're actually his strong points.

I mean, Romney didn't pay that many taxes largely because he donated something like 16+% of his earnings to charity.

Adding that up to his tax rate...  he actually probably paid more taxes then he had to.



Mr Khan said:

In a way that proves my point. If the Nader folks had swallowed their pride and voted for Gore, he would have easily won Florida, and US history would have been changed for so much better. I believe McCain lost both North Carolina and Indiana in 2008 by smaller margins than those who voted for Bob Barr, and so the libertarians could have averted (or tried to avert) what (for them) is the Obama disaster. And then, of course, there's Ross Perot and George Bush in 1992.

I'm arguing for one vote, not many. You could always argue that if x group voted for y, then y would have won. And you're assuming that everyone who voted for Barr would have voted for McCain, which is not necessarily the case.

I'm not saying that voting 3rd party means your candidate is going to win. I'm not saying that I expect everyone to hear all about libertarianism from this. I do know that many of you do see it as a waste. But I don't, because I'm voting for the person that I think will do the best job.

I do understand why the two party system is dominant. But I would much rather have more choices than less.

gergroy said:

Media covers those that have a chance of winning.  I agree that it is harder for 3rd parties to get coverage because they arent part of the two mainparties that people are used to.  However, if they actually had a good candidate they could easily get past that.  If they had an amazing message that every american agreed with then they would catch on and get plenty of coverage.  That is what happened with perot.  

The problem is that most 3rd parties are just redudant ideas that are already represented in the two main parties or they are too extreme for most americans.  

The biggest problem though is that these parties just cant field good candidates.  Look at johnson, he was running as a republican and he couldnt even get 2% support needed to get into most of the debates.  He just simply isnt a good candidate.

As far as presidential debates, i agree they should be more inclusive, but having your name on the ballot shouldnt get you an automatic invitation, they should be able show a broad base of support, probably 20% so that the debates can focus on candidates that actually have a chance.

And ending up with a worse evil may not be bad?  That just makes people even more desperate and you could very well end up with someone worse next time.  Thats just bad logic.

Bolded; Fair enough.

Yes, Johnson polled very low as a Republican candidate. Part of that was because he was excluded from many of the debates and polls (though there were far too many debates). The other part could very well be that people just didn't like him. It could also be that because there were so many candidates in the debates, no one really bothered to consider many of the less known names. But coverage was certainly a part of why.

I'm arguing that you can't just have your name on the ballot, you also need to be on the ballot in enough states that you could actually win the election. 20% would actually be worse than it is now; right now, you have to average 15% in 5 national polls (though we don't know which ones; correct me if I'm wrong). Since most of these polls only include Romney and Obama, how can any 3rd party expect to do well? Of course, there is a problem of the debates being too crowded, but what makes an arbitrary number a good way to decide who can and can't be in the debates?

I disagree. If we end up with the worse candidate, things will get worse. That will open up discussion about possible solutions, instead of everyone just wanting to stay on the course we're currently on. Sure, people could be desperate. But there will at least be talk of what might actually help. And you could always end up with someone worse next time, regardless of how good or bad the current president has been.

gergroy said:

So, this is what is going to happen in november.  Johnson will get 3 to 5% of the vote.  You being one of the people that voted for him.  Will that mean more people will suddenly hear about his platform after the election?  No, you might hear how he played spoiler for romney in a couple of states, but the media isnt going to be shouting his platform at you because he got some votes.

If anything, johnsons success would probably weaken the libertarian movement, as he would get blamed for romney losing just like nader got balmed for gore losing.  Is the green party better off now?  Nope, just pushed more of them to stay home or just vote democrat.

Not on the national level, or in the media. But at least some people have noticed that he is doing well for a 3rd party candidate. Some of those people have probably looked into his positions. I don't expect some grand revolution. But there will be at least some people who will take notice and at least get some exposure to another point of view.

Not quite. Depending on the location, Johnson has been shown to draw from Romney and Obama fairly evenly. Sometimes he helps Romney more, sometimes he helps Obama more. For example, a recent poll in Colorado has Obama up over Romney by 6% in a two way race. That lead drops to 4% with Johnson in the mix.



Zugdar said:
No way. The majority of everything promised has never happened or was just making empty words for votes. While most in politics do this, he was a major offender on a larger scale. And this whole class warfare has got to stop.


The  class warfare is being perpetuated by the Republicans though lol

Has been for the last 50 years with there "trickle down effect" economics which NEVER trickle anywhere but in their pockets. 



Gamer_of_the_Year said:
Zugdar said:
No way. The majority of everything promised has never happened or was just making empty words for votes. While most in politics do this, he was a major offender on a larger scale. And this whole class warfare has got to stop.


The  class warfare is being perpetuated by the Republicans though lol

Has been for the last 50 years with there "trickle down effect" economics which NEVER trickle anywhere but in their pockets. 


Yeah, its not like the average house size has doubled since the 1950s, everyone can own a computer and other fancy electronic devices, and even poor people can afford to have multiple cars per household.



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Mr Khan said:
insomniac17 said:
gergroy said:

And yes, those voting 3rd party are wasting their vote. Voting for the losing guy with no chance is the equivalent of staying home and not voting. Personally, i most likely am staying home as I live in utah and the results of my state are already decided. If they didnt have the electoral college system i might be more inclined to vote. I dont know why they dont do popular vote...

You have a very bleak outlook on voting 3rd party. For me, it is a statement against something that I don't approve of. If I vote for Romney or Obama, I am saying that I approve of whichever one I pick. But I don't. Therefore, I won't vote for either one. Part of the reason why 3rd parties never do well is because everyone thinks that it's throwing away your vote. You should vote for who you think will do the best job, not just the lesser of two evils.

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.


That being said, is there a reason why preferential voting is NOT being used? Is it because the major parties in power wont vote it in because it essentially gives minor parties more leverage?

It would reflect who voters want a lot more, because there would be no fear of voting for a minority and wasting your vote in the sense that your second preference (one of the major parties, perhaps) could need that vote.



fordy said:
Mr Khan said:

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.


That being said, is there a reason why preferential voting is NOT being used? Is it because the major parties in power wont vote it in because it essentially gives minor parties more leverage?

It would reflect who voters want a lot more, because there would be no fear of voting for a minority and wasting your vote in the sense that your second preference (one of the major parties, perhaps) could need that vote.

It would certainly benefit America to set up a "majority rule" for federal elections, where runoffs are held if any candidate cannot get at least 50% of the vote, and make the Electoral College into proportional representation (which would again open the entire country up to campaigning, and not just Ohio, Florida, Missouri, Colorado, and Oregon), though straight PR would not work



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

ps3_jrpg_gamer said:

i would vote for the communist party


so the democrats!?

 

i dont even think they deny it anymore.



killerzX said:
ps3_jrpg_gamer said:

i would vote for the communist party


so the democrats!?

 

i dont even think they deny it anymore.

Please. The Dems don't even have the balls to go for Social Democrat.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:
ps3_jrpg_gamer said:

i would vote for the communist party


so the democrats!?

 

i dont even think they deny it anymore.

Please. The Dems don't even have the balls to go for Social Democrat.

please, claiming most democrats arent outright communist is laughable.

they would want nothing more than a communist state if it werent political suicide. 

there really isnt any issue that they differ from communists on.

obama was a registered member of the New Party for crying out loud. thats a communists party out of chicago.