Mr Khan said:
In a way that proves my point. If the Nader folks had swallowed their pride and voted for Gore, he would have easily won Florida, and US history would have been changed for so much better. I believe McCain lost both North Carolina and Indiana in 2008 by smaller margins than those who voted for Bob Barr, and so the libertarians could have averted (or tried to avert) what (for them) is the Obama disaster. And then, of course, there's Ross Perot and George Bush in 1992.
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I'm arguing for one vote, not many. You could always argue that if x group voted for y, then y would have won. And you're assuming that everyone who voted for Barr would have voted for McCain, which is not necessarily the case.
I'm not saying that voting 3rd party means your candidate is going to win. I'm not saying that I expect everyone to hear all about libertarianism from this. I do know that many of you do see it as a waste. But I don't, because I'm voting for the person that I think will do the best job.
I do understand why the two party system is dominant. But I would much rather have more choices than less.
gergroy said:
Media covers those that have a chance of winning. I agree that it is harder for 3rd parties to get coverage because they arent part of the two mainparties that people are used to. However, if they actually had a good candidate they could easily get past that. If they had an amazing message that every american agreed with then they would catch on and get plenty of coverage. That is what happened with perot.
The problem is that most 3rd parties are just redudant ideas that are already represented in the two main parties or they are too extreme for most americans.
The biggest problem though is that these parties just cant field good candidates. Look at johnson, he was running as a republican and he couldnt even get 2% support needed to get into most of the debates. He just simply isnt a good candidate.
As far as presidential debates, i agree they should be more inclusive, but having your name on the ballot shouldnt get you an automatic invitation, they should be able show a broad base of support, probably 20% so that the debates can focus on candidates that actually have a chance.
And ending up with a worse evil may not be bad? That just makes people even more desperate and you could very well end up with someone worse next time. Thats just bad logic.
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Bolded; Fair enough.
Yes, Johnson polled very low as a Republican candidate. Part of that was because he was excluded from many of the debates and polls (though there were far too many debates). The other part could very well be that people just didn't like him. It could also be that because there were so many candidates in the debates, no one really bothered to consider many of the less known names. But coverage was certainly a part of why.
I'm arguing that you can't just have your name on the ballot, you also need to be on the ballot in enough states that you could actually win the election. 20% would actually be worse than it is now; right now, you have to average 15% in 5 national polls (though we don't know which ones; correct me if I'm wrong). Since most of these polls only include Romney and Obama, how can any 3rd party expect to do well? Of course, there is a problem of the debates being too crowded, but what makes an arbitrary number a good way to decide who can and can't be in the debates?
I disagree. If we end up with the worse candidate, things will get worse. That will open up discussion about possible solutions, instead of everyone just wanting to stay on the course we're currently on. Sure, people could be desperate. But there will at least be talk of what might actually help. And you could always end up with someone worse next time, regardless of how good or bad the current president has been.
gergroy said:
So, this is what is going to happen in november. Johnson will get 3 to 5% of the vote. You being one of the people that voted for him. Will that mean more people will suddenly hear about his platform after the election? No, you might hear how he played spoiler for romney in a couple of states, but the media isnt going to be shouting his platform at you because he got some votes.
If anything, johnsons success would probably weaken the libertarian movement, as he would get blamed for romney losing just like nader got balmed for gore losing. Is the green party better off now? Nope, just pushed more of them to stay home or just vote democrat.
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Not on the national level, or in the media. But at least some people have noticed that he is doing well for a 3rd party candidate. Some of those people have probably looked into his positions. I don't expect some grand revolution. But there will be at least some people who will take notice and at least get some exposure to another point of view.
Not quite. Depending on the location, Johnson has been shown to draw from Romney and Obama fairly evenly. Sometimes he helps Romney more, sometimes he helps Obama more. For example, a recent poll in Colorado has Obama up over Romney by 6% in a two way race. That lead drops to 4% with Johnson in the mix.