How old did you think I am that I wouldn't be able to tell between couldn't and shouldn't ?

I mean seriouly.

1) FF XI damaged the franchise cause it was not a Final Fantasy game by any means, story wise or gameplay wise or antyhing wise.

2)FF VIII was excellent, X was excellent and X-2 was rather good and very underrated and if you're talking about Crysis Core, that's one of the best PSP games. I don't see how listing great games discredits the creators.

3)No, FF XIII-2 was a response to nothing other the fact that FF XIII was successful. The sequel tried to apologise as much as X-2 tried to apoligise for X. Yes, also very different a sequel. Another factor in the differences between XIII and XIII-2 is that they tried to be more efficient development wise, they said so themselves, which includes listening to feedback something that they couldn't do in the first one.

4)Looking at reviews right now, metacritic 83, user score 80.

5)By market conditions I obviously refer to the wildly known fact that was only mentioned a post ago, that japanese games are doing badly, very badly. Are you mocking me in my face talking about Skyrim ? What on earth does skyrim has to do with anything concerning the slowly dying japanese gaming industry ? Its't not 1998 anymore, that's a long gone market. Square's expectations were lower and yes XIII managed to be by far one of the best selling Japanese games.

Despite its many problems...

1. You first say that your not going to criticise FF13 for being 'new'. Now your saying that FF11 was not a Final Fantasy game in terms of gameplay or story. This contradicts your original point... As I already said FF11 couldnt damage the franchise because it was very well recieved both critically and commerically.

2. FF8 was not excellent. FF10 had it moments, I believe it stood well because Sakaguhci was still heavily involved. FF10-2... was underated... of course, its underated, which is why the game was about three scantly clad girls running around the world to find Yuna's lover. This is storytelling at its finest! Tell Christopher Nolan we have the idea for his next movie! I'm not sure about Crisis Core, but Before Crisis, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus et all are in my opinion abhorations of the FF7 name.

3. Reviews tell you that neither FF13 or FF13-2 are 9/10 or even 10/10 games. Makes you wonder what review scores they wouldve got if they didnt have FF on the box. Which is irrelevant anyway, critical review are still not 'spectacular' as you claim.

4. Your talking about how FF13/FF13-2 combined sold 9.2 mil copies, stating this is an amazing feat or sales. Yet we have Skyrim which is an RPG, in the same market conditions which has sold more copies than FF13 and FF13-2 in a shorter space of time. And you blaming the Japanese console market, where FF13 has an advantage over Skyrim and sold more copies in Japan than Skyrim. Skyrim is an example, as is Uncharted and Mass Effect that sequels, and RPGs are actully finding great success in the market. FF13-2 couldnt be more successful for reasons we can only speculate. I think this is because FF13 was simply not good enough for fans to warrant purchasing the sequel. Hence why it sold less copies than FF13.

5. How can FF13 have won, when the head of Square Enix has acknowledged the franchise has been greatly damaged and that some fans were very unhappy with it? How can FF13 have won when the sequel was made to address the problems with FF13, yet sold less copies than its predecessor? If this is winning, I'd hate to see what losing is.

1)You know it as well as I do, you are wasting our time playing with words trying to make something out of nothing. XI has no resemablance to anything remotely Final Fantasy, it's barely a half decent attempt at an mmo game. That doesn't spell new. That spells unrelated.

2) Your opinions are yours and yours alone but objectively you must recognise that trying to talk down about not one or two but 4 whole Final Fantasy games (VIII, X, X-2, CC) is a stretching it, isn't it ? Also never talk crap about Advent Children, that is the best action movie ever made.

3) Reviews are not only critical but also from users. Don't feed me lines. An average of 8 out of 10 is a stellar score for the 13th continuation of a 20 year old franchise.

4)  Jesus noob pwning Christ...What are you talking about, it has nothing to do with the console market and I'm not focusing on the PS3. It's the INDUSTRY, the japanese gaming industry. FF is not an RPG it's a gadman JAPANESE RPG, thus my referal to the very specific market conditions.  How on earth could have XIII-2 sold more than XIII ?!?!?

5) The head was talking about XIV, FINAL FANTASY XIV. THE ONLINE ONE ! And XIII-2 didn't not address anything, i already answered this. It was as different from XIII as X-2 was from X, Square never repeats itself, and ths time they had a more efficient development, they didn't have to make a gigantic game where you never visit anything again, 'cause it was extremely expensive. A main issue in XIII was the low difficulty, did they address that ? No they were going for a different game. Did X-2 sell more than X and how would that be even possible ?

You wanna see what losing is ?

Be my guest, take a look at every japanese game, this generation, rpg or not. Star Ocean, Nier, Siren: Blood Curse, Resonance of Fate, Tales of Vesperia, Shadows of the Damned. All great games.

That is losing.

The whole japanese industry took a huge blow this generation and you are looking elsewhere, stubbornly not giving credit were credit is due.

Clicked on the hyperlink.

FF 13-2 had 2 really great songs.

Serah's Theme and Noel's Theme. Listen to them and tell me if it's not on par with the older FF songs. They are just as great and memorable as Aerith's Theme, Tifa's Theme, To Zanarkand, Eyes On Me, Melodies Of Life etc.

I don't know how to embed, but, check out these 2 songs from FF 13-2.


Noel's Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLetgnrcIo

Serah's Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_7lVVvedU

XIII and XIII-2 have better music then a lot of the older games. Nobuo is so over rated. Not that his work is bad because he definitely has done a lot of good songs, but he is given too much credit sometimes.

And not forgetting the theme song for the Japanese Version of FF13.
Kimi Ga Iru Kara

That is another masterpiece.

After listening to Noel's Theme, Serah's Theme and Kimi Ga Iru Kara, tell me if the music sucks in FF 13, FF13-2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVciipYkkQs

i don't meant to be rude, but to say musics bad because it's not simple (aka catchy like say lady gaga songs) doesn't make much sense. Plenty of complex songs are memorable... idk It's like saying mozart can't be memorable, radiohead can't be memorable, or jazz can't be memorable. Pop songs are the best because they have a catchy melody.

Obv I'm not going to argue on whether songs are memorable or not that's. For me there were plenty of memorable songs in FFXIII and XIII-2. I mean the prelude for FFXIII is really simple... it's not like everything is complex from a musical standpoint.

And Nobuo uematsu have plenty of songs that are complex, theres bleepyness has a lot of nostalgia, and fit the games... But on my Ipod I have the orchestrated rearranged versions of those songs  I'd rather listen too, or at the very least the resampled ones by like FinalFantim.

They should just hire hans zimmer and call it a day.

I thought that FFXIII had great music, I ended up buying some of it and when it comes up on shuffle it reminds me of boss fights etc.