| DigitalDevilSummoner said: |
To the moderator who banned me for flaming this guy.
If you look at my posts to his, I have not attacked him in any way in this post. I have asked him what I think are reasonable questions in a diplomatic manner. I give the moderators my word I will not troll this person. If he does not respond, I will not pursue this discussion.
I have left all his posts intact so the moderators can see I have taken no points out of context and I have given him a chance to defend his points in the context they were intended rather than editing them.
The moderators can see that these points are aimed at me. This user has called me out on my wall again, so we can only assume that you Digital Devil Summoner wishes to continue this discussion in a serious diplomatic manner? We can assume that you wish to engage in civilised discussion which is why you has pursued this discussion... or am I mistaken as is that not the case?
"FF XIII-2 sales
1. FF XIII-2's market pool is the people who bought FF XIII, so by default it's smaller. The success of the FF franchise is based on the fact that sequels were just numerical and not narrative so that offered a totally different game based on a different universe every time.
I suppose you are trying to present FF XIII-2 sales as a "benchmark" for FF XIII itself. FF X-2, which was deemed as highly successful for its time has sales that are lower than that of FF X, that doesn't mean anything about FF X itself. Narrative sequels are a different thing in FF games than other games but it is a good venture for the company since they have the graphics engine ready and various elements like locations and characters to re use."
1. Why is FF13-2’s market pool smaller by default?
2. Why are narrative sequels in FF different than in other games? Why for example did Assassin’s Creed 2 (a narrative sequel) sell about the same amount of copies as AC1, or Mass Effect 2? Why are FF13-2 sales not in a similar region to FF13?
"The chairman
Mr Yoichi was talking about FF XIV when he said it "greatly damaged Final Fantasy brand". The much prior quote about FF XIII "Some value it highly and some are not very happy with it." was a pretty diplomatic way of being respectable to critical reviews without dismissing them. "Not very happy" is a far cry from damaging the brand, he is very careful with his words after all.
What he is saying about XIII sale expectations is simple and rather typical PR. He says "let's hope so" while he aknowledges that the bar was set too high by VII."
3. If Yochi Wada is not dismissing critical reviews, does that not mean he is acknowledging them? And this isn’t the only comment from Wada on the matter, what about his other comments about how he is not sure where the future of the FF brand will go?
"The director
You accuse me of not answering your points but you didn't answer the part where I mentioned that Toriyama defended FF XIII by saying that people see it from a western perspective and thusly misjudge it. You also didn't answer the part were X-2 was totally different from X."
4. I said Toriyama was conducting damage control on FF13 before it was released. I answered this question. What about all the Japanese reviews on Amazon Japan.
5. What are you asking me about FF10-2 being different from FF10?
"Rather you took this much expected move, for him to make a brand new game and twisted it so it spells out that since they didn't make an exact copy of XIII that means XIII sucked. As if Square has ever repeated itself.
What Toriyama is saying is simply explaining why it was shaped this particular way, he’s not apologizing."
"The reason XIII-2 was made and how it took its current form
If XIII wasn't a success, they wouldn't have a direct sequel. That's what sparked the whole project. Sales and reviews, maybe not for you but for Square would have been enough of a testament for XIII’s worth. They would have dived right away into XIV or Versus instead. XIII success was pretty much guaranteed if anything sorely because of how ridiculously impressive and expensive the game looks and of course the brand name. That coupled with the fact that Momotu Toriyama is the leader behind the scenario, the name who came up with the X-2, I think it was pretty much predetermined that there would be a narrative sequel.
Adding elements and scrapping others isn't really fixing XIII since XIII-2 is a very different game centered around a different pillar this time: being player centered rather than story centered. To say they were trying to fix XIII would be questioning the very concept of FF games that is to have a story and character driven game."
6. Why can fans not question the ‘very concept’ of a game? Should we accept the game simply because it has ‘Final Fantasy’ on the box?
"The differences between XIII and XIII-2 isn't sorely a matter of shifting concepts but a matter of production as well. XIII, as I have said, is an enormously expensive game that has you simply passing through 40 hours worth of endless highly detailed environments only once. They couldn't possibly have done something like that with XIII-2. For XIII-2 they left behind large-scale internal development and story based milestones. They managed to maximize the effectiveness of the development process by making better use of the environments, which they make you visit again and again. They also said they couldn't include testers feedback because of the longer than expected development, something they could only do now."
7. Is that not their own incompetence?
"I have already argued on a different thread of this forum that FF XIII is not really an rpg game. The creators said they were trying to work outside genres and do something new. XIII is a mix of rpg, action and tactics. XIII-2 on other hand, not so much, what Kitase said about keeping eyes and ears open for what’s going on in the market is exactly that since XIII was highly criticized for all the things it was not, like being and open game like Skyrim or giving options like Mass Effect. With FF XIII-2 they made a far more straightforward rpg than XIII was which personally disappointed me a little since as one can figure out from my name, I like rpgs that involve tactical thinking."
8. If Final Fantasy 13 is ‘not really’ an RPG, then why should it have Final Fantasy on the box?
"If anything what Toriyama and Kitase are saying is something that we all knew, that they didn't really listen to anyone while making FF XIII and I absolutely respect that and agree. I think we are coming full circle by visiting the question of what would have happened if they tried to visit older Square rpg gaming styles, like bravely default seems to be doing. Well, it is a long dead gaming style after all and it is the responsibility of a grand game like Final Fantasy to keep digging for some new concept instead of reminiscing about the past."
"The case of incompetent developers.
Once again you tried to drag down an amazing number of FF titles like VIII, X and crysis core to make a point that exists in only your head. Momotu Toriyama, he is the guy behind the impeccable FF X, that’s enough credit for a life time."
9. Before we continue this, I need you to say the words that Momotu Toriyama and Yoshnori Kitase are impeccable developers. I need to believe that you actually think they are amazing.
