Oh, an apology. Such a wonderful word: "- OMG, I've apologized, I'm so f***king awesome! Are we good now? - Eeerr... - ARE we good NOW? - Sure... pal" :D Apology is awlays good when it doesn't have consequences, or by the words of well-know bureaucrat grade 36 - it's cheap. I'm pretty sure whatever apology proclamation you're referring to has a disclaimer written in tiny scrip at the very bottom of the page: "Not by any means it may be used as any official document in legislation act or legal process".

Whatever happened in Yugoslavia is very politicized issue, far more politicized than Indian genocide ever was or ever will be, because I'd severely doubt anyone would have balls to seriouslly politicize it in America. If next day the entire US nuclear arsenal along with it's political and financial influence would have disappeared, I'm pretty sure there'd be a lot of politcians, public figures, NGOs or any other, let's say, ideologically-competitive people and organizations (like RT, but worse), whom and which modern American legislation hold by the balls, who would try to use this . And you'd extremely lucky if astronomical compensations (given the size and how much time have passed) one Americans will pay to another would have been the only issue. How about political compensation for whatever poor redskins have suffered? Like autonomous Indian regions in the heart of US? Or even independece of certain states? Or "Here's your $24, now go the f**k out of our land, white people, America decolonize!" :D

I have a feeling that Serbs would have adimtted anything if it'll return them to the status quo ante bellum somehow, but they won't (not because that's not true, or not a whole truth), but because for THEM it would have and already did have  consequences.

BTW why haven't you comment on the rest of my list? I'm pretty sure last time you was all in deanial about atomic bombings of Japan. As you said it was moral act to do because it "saved a lot of lifes, bla-bla-blah" (a common place in American historiography), while my point was differenet and valid: If the US would have lost the WW2 and did managed to bomb Japan at the same time, people resonsible for the act would have been rightfully prosecuted as war criminals by international court - that's VERY feasible thing that might have happened, the prosecution part, not that part where US is loosing WW2 :D Even without atomic bombings Japan wasn't a formidable foe, propaganda that has followed did make them look like that though.

So my point is not that America is bad, or by the words of one the guy from Afghanistan: "Yes, Shuravi were biggest shaitan at the time, but America is bigger shaitan right now", - but the fact that ethinc cleansings aren't the issue here.

Apology is acknowledgement. Acknowledgement should be paid.

As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It should be noted that the US actually did TRY and apologize for it. However the Japanese nixed the event.

Obama planned to do so in Japan but the idea was nixed. At least according to Wikileaks.

Likely because Japan has a fairly bad problem of "Manchuria" denile.


As for the US leaders being tried for it if they lost the war... US leaders would of been tried had they lost the war regardless. Even if they never fought back.

My position on it was, at the end of the day, it ended up the right call because it caused the least amount of casualties, and even the least amount of civilian casualties from all available options. That's not "histography" it's just the truth.

Was it horribly immoral? Well yeah. It wasn't even the most immoral act the US committed in WW2. At the end of the day... a lot of the firebombings were worse.

Sorry for late reply and bumping, I have some severe problems with my keyboard, and i couldn't write longer posts.

She didn't alter her official report, but she did stated in the documentary that Walker was outraged with the report and wanted her to tweak it. She even said in the documentary that the bodies of the dead were actually a mixure of local civilians, serb police and albanian terrorists.

And i wouldn't say that changes nothing... it does open a hypothesis of them dying in crossfire or by aiding one side during battle. Also, If you're gonna kill unarmed civilian, you might as well do it from a point blank rage to save yourself an effort from aiming. Executions with firearms are ALMOST always done on close range (unless its a capital punishment).

For christ sake, the very fact that the guy threw an object at her shows how biased and angry he was about the report HE DEMANDED to be changed so he can have his excuse is evidence enough that Americans conspired against Yugoslavia, wanted it to lose and helped the terrorist group by siding with them.

But let's pretend that it indeed was a massacre and they were all civilians...why did the West side with the terrorist organization ? They did it a lot more often and even continued to do so after the war. They even went as far as to openly break an internationally accepted Resolution.  That's like siding with the Nazis because of Allied bombing of Dresden . Now, Im not denying the crimes committed by Serbs during the war, but there was never a single side during whole history of warfare that had its hands clean of civilian blood. Ever.

And you can multiply the biggest serbian crime by 500, and it still wont be as half as big as some crimes  Americans committed

And congratulations on becoming a mod, its a well deserved title :)

Except it wasn't, nothing that was mentioned in my post. Serbs on other hand did pay, though as I said ethnic cleansings aren't the issue here, the very existence of Yugoslavia in any shape or form is an issue here.

But anyway, your post worth replying with this quote:

The English are well known throughout the world for their lack of political scruples. They are experts at the art of hiding their misdeeds behind a facade of virtue. They have been at it for centuries, and it has become such a part of their nature that they hardly notice it any longer. They carry on with such a pious expression and deadly seriousness that they even convince themselves that they are the exemplars of political virtue. They do not admit their hypocrisy to themselves. It never happens that one Englishman says to another with a wink or a smile “We don’t want to fool ourselves, do we now.” They do not only behave as if they were the model of piety and virtue - they really believe that they are. That is both amusing and dangerous.

It's surpising for me how often this quote comes in handy, though I'm far of being an adept of the author's ideology. Still he used to be an expert in what he was doing, probably the most influental till today.

my comments are not ignorant they come from truth shame on you for saying that you may be half serbian but you dont have a serbs heart you are nothing but a traitor

i dont care about some stupid song some extremist made the history paints a different picture serbs will never forget the evils of {jasenovac concentration cam}

It took a while to get through this thread and it's a shame that it had to get derailed but I will add my 2 cents to the op as well as the other discussion taking place.

The current government in Serbia reflects the sentiment of the people of a nation (Serbia) that are sick and tired of their country constantly being given conditions and never being rewarded even after meeting them. The previous government went out of it's way to do everything that was dictated to them by the west short of officially accepting Kosovo independence and Serbia is still no better off for it..

At this point in time there is no need whatsoever for Serbia to make a real attempt to enter the EU and it should use the current western economic weakness to its advantage by playing the waiting game and maintaining good relations with the west while deepening ties with Russia and China.

Serbia needs to focus on improving the economy with a strong focus on political/military neutrality and I believe that this approach will produce the best results.

As far as the discussions about genocide go they are all irrelevant because while it would be great to be idealistic and play the moral game at the end of the day it all comes down to the strong dictating to the weak and doing what they want to do. This was true at the dawn of time and remains true today.

But for the sake of argument I will say that the west set a dangerous precedent by attacking a nation without a UN security council resolution and even going up against the NATO charter where the requirement to attack a nation is that the said nation attacks a NATO member state.

The precedent that was set in 1999 in the bombing of Serbia is one that national sovereignty can be violated even when a nation is dealing with a conflict internally and international law can be circumvented when convenient by powerful countries in order to advance their geopolitical interests.

By the way I'm an Australian of Serbian descent who cares deeply not only for Serbia but for the region as a whole and I hope that balance can be restored. That is why I am strongly in favour of a multi-polar world where strong countries can't act unilaterally without severe consequences.

This is in many ways just brilliant :D

Unknown provocateur: "Please, sign your work"
*shows pics of NATO bombings victims*
Mad "Albright" Korbelova: "...get out!"

I wonder if Serbs would have given shelter to Albright's familty during WW2 if they knew she'd become a "Serbia's butcher"?

Or at least that's what they say on this video, could be a myth after all.

//BTW note IPKO (or IPCO, the biggest mobile operator in Kosovo, founded in 1999 as you might have figured out) logo on the pics, and photo of Madeleine hanging out with it's CEO? There're rumours Madeleine is having a hand in geschaft of the enterprise. Kinda low for her rank, so could be very well a myth too. But that's noteworthy that unknown provocateur paid so much attention to that little know topic.

Mad is just a perfect Jewish lady to hate on :D High-ranked (or used to be), part of the establishment, boundless chutzpah, hypocritical and full of hate to whatever she hates on almost biological level.

Probably isn't worth a thread bump, but just to illustrate few things I posted earlier.

Gotovina and Markac have been welcomed as heroes in Croatia. A little reminder. Ante Gotovina is Croatian general that has been accused and found guilty of ethnic cleansing of Serbs during so called "Operation Storm" in August 1995. In 2011 Gotovina was sentenced to 24 years in prison, Markac -- 18 years, Cermak -- acquitted. This year Gotovina and Markac were fully acquitted by ICTY and realeased. Oh, ICTY... no bias... at all :D

Here's long quote of Kusturica on the recent release of Ante Gotovina. My not full and probably not very accurate translation (do not forget to turn your sarcasm detectors on):

Those people are wrong, who think that the release of general Gotovina by ICTY has put an end to the whole story. I'm afraid we can expect new surprises here. First of all thanks to humanistic qualities of international community, it educated us about humanitarian bombings and peacekeeping wars, international community knows how to award peackeepers around the world!

I don't know what has happened to the judge who sentenced Gotovina to 24 years in prison. I believe there were some solid proofs of serious crimes, but another judge who released Gotovina is obviously way more farsighted. But why half-measures? Let's take it further. If deportation of 200 000 Serbs from Croatia is not a crime -- he's been released after all -- therefore "Operation Storm" should been acknowledged as a humane act, which has been blessed upon us by international community. Gotovina could have kill everyone, but didn't!

*Rant about how American soldiers kill everyone left and right in Afghanistan and ridiculous Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Obama, few words about Croatian radical nationalists Starcevic and Pavelic* 

English Encyclopedia says that there's about 700 000 civilians killed in Jasenovac concentration camps, mostly Serbs. But very few Croatioans actually believe that. And very little actually believe that "Operation Storm" is a final act of Starcevic-Pavelic tandem plan! Court has decided that Gotovina is not guilty after all! So who cares?

One of the most important arguments in the whole story is confession of US ambasaddor Galbraith did, the fact that deportation of Serbs from Croatia was inevitable, and the fact that international community has been working on this plan. He said that "Operation Storm" has been put on the agenda due to Srebrenica!

Among Serbs there're people who went too far, turning it upside-down and suggesting that Srebrenica was merely a distraction from Serbs deportation from Croatia. What silly thoughts might come to our heads?! Strange people we are! We're not very good at logic. This could make it harder for Gotovina to receive a Nobel Peace Prize.

Milan Martic, an officer of Serbian police, is still in prison, he has fought in Krajina for sake of survival of Serbs in Croatia. He was against the idea of ethnic cleansings, yet he is accused of those cleansings! After Gotovina cleaned Croatia from Serbs, Martic is accused of ethnic cleansings of Croatians, who are like 95% of Croatia's population now?..