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Forums - General - The Bible verse discussion thread

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happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:

You wrote this to introduce your thread:

After much debate over matters of faith and secularism, some friends and I have come to the conclusion that it might be best to start a thread as a place to discuss biblical ideas so as to learn about Judeo-Christian doctrine, and reduce off-topic debates on scripture and reduce the amount of learning that needs to be done during controversial debates when it comes to things of the bible.

 

You started a thread as a place to discuss biblican ideas as to learn about Judeo-Christian doctrine.  In response to this, I posted a number of videos connected to this, with the most recent having to do with the Christian doctrine involving how to understand the Bible and its role (sola-scriptura).  All this connects to your original point.  Now, if you want to have a thread on whether or not the Bible requires rapists to marry women they rape, that is a much more specific issue, and maybe you should change your subject to that.  But, as it is now, you wanted to discuss Judeo-Christian doctrine, so I was sharing a number of things related to that, and scripture itself.  I posted some music by a Jewish musician also, which has ties to the Old Testament.  Anyhow, pardon me for not thinking the next sum of Judeo-Christian doctrine involved whether or not rapist must marry women they rape, and also if I am not following your agenda and list of topics.  I didn't think it was about that, and actually find that topic fairly simplistic, pretty boring and does little to enlighten, and doesn't account for cultural context either.

The topic is about biblican passages and explaining them within their contexts if that sheds clues.  If you want to post 1 video with some obsuce tie-in to OP be my guest.

But quinty-posting some fucking random video with possible tie-ins to the bible, if you don't mind, consider the absolute zero value to the thread, take your videos and go.

Now if there's something you think will contribute to the thread in a direct manner, post the vid, and clearly and explicitely say so in your post, otherwise I'll consider videos of a teenage highschooler clamoring "Jesus, man!" to be disrespectful and unresourceful.

Thanks

I will give you chapter 6 from Chesterton's book "Orthodoxy".  I could also give you some other Christian apologetics:



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And part 2 by Chesterton, which goes into the details of part 1:



happydolphin said:

1st topic on hand, does God condone Rape, and does the mosaic law unjustly deal with matters of rape?

A quote from Mr. Wonktonodi to begin the debate:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

That is a law of marriage and rape. How moral is it to force a rape victim to marry her rapist? Is there a point where this is invalidated latter?

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

 

Fire away :3 (not litterally, just have fun! :D)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19&version=NIV 

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard."

 

http://bible.cc/ephesians/5-25.htm

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

 

Now, if you just want the nits to be strained, you can find a number of articles like this one that go into the subject:

http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/how-could-the-bible-command-a-rape-victim-to-marry-her-rapist/

 

The question is: Do you just want to spend page after page after page dicing up specific texts or address bigger issues?  If you want specific nits, then label each topic separately, with an overarching theme in the subject header.  On that, you can check out Exodus 22.

 



richardhutnik said:

Now, if you just want the nits to be strained, you can find a number of articles like this one that go into the subject:

http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/how-could-the-bible-command-a-rape-victim-to-marry-her-rapist/

 

The question is: Do you just want to spend page after page after page dicing up specific texts or address bigger issues?  If you want specific nits, then label each topic separately, with an overarching theme in the subject header.  On that, you can check out Exodus 22.

Like I said in OP, I want to touch different bible passages, one topic at a time, and the first topic to start it off was the topic of rape in the old testament and in the bible in general.

Yeah, so this will stay the Bible discussion thread and every now and then we'll change topics, and people can discuss other topics in the meantime but if it gets too chaotic I'll ask people to stick to the current topic. Right now it's rape.



@Happyd, in layman's terms, what does the bible say about rape? Try not to use scripture.



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man-bear-pig said:
@Happyd, in layman's terms, what does the bible say about rape? Try not to use scripture.

I'm not sure. I'll try to explain scripture like I read it, and say what I understand in layman's terms.

The bible talks about rape mostly in the mosaic law, which is found in the books of Exodus, Deutoronomy, Leviticus and Numbers (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The idea is that if a woman is a virgin and is raped, the rapist must marry her. Let's stick to this one case before going on to the ones where the woman raped is married, for a sec.

The reason Moses asks this it seems (as Mr Khan pointed out), is that in the society of that time and place, a woman was marriageable only if she wasn't deflowered:

"It's much more straightforward and materialistic. A deflowered woman had no sale value, so the man who did so was required to take her. It's the marriage equivalent of shotgun weddings, or "you break it, you bought it." Otherwise the woman would be unmarriagable, creating a burden on her family."

As Mr. Khan said, that would explain why in the case of a married woman, if she didn't cry for help, she would be stoned, since she was already married to another man.

However, I'm not sure if I buy this whole argument, since Ruth was married to a Jew when he died and she became a widow, yet still her life was considered valuable enough to keep alive and she even married later what is called a kinsman redeemer.

All this to say that we're looking for clues, and other parts of the bible will tell us if those clues make sense in the big picture or not.

So to answer your question, I still don't know, and I'm workin' on it ;)



man-bear-pig said:
@Happyd, in layman's terms, what does the bible say about rape? Try not to use scripture.

I am getting more of this as an impression of what Happyd is saying: What is Christian doctrine about?  Don't use scripture, and only follow what I am addressing, using your own line and reasoning, and don't you dare bring up anything else, because this is MY thread, not yours.  When we are done with showing that the Bible wants men to rape women, we will go into showing how it endorses infanticide.  Then, after then next 20 topics are done, it will become clear than in no place in time should anything with the Bible me in the minds of anyone anywhere.  After this, we can then get back to why all Chick-Fil-A places should be burned to the ground.



happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:

Now, if you just want the nits to be strained, you can find a number of articles like this one that go into the subject:

http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/how-could-the-bible-command-a-rape-victim-to-marry-her-rapist/

 

The question is: Do you just want to spend page after page after page dicing up specific texts or address bigger issues?  If you want specific nits, then label each topic separately, with an overarching theme in the subject header.  On that, you can check out Exodus 22.

Like I said in OP, I want to touch different bible passages, one topic at a time, and the first topic to start it off was the topic of rape in the old testament and in the bible in general.

Yeah, so this will stay the Bible discussion thread and every now and then we'll change topics, and people can discuss other topics in the meantime but if it gets too chaotic I'll ask people to stick to the current topic. Right now it's rape.

Change the subject header to, "Issues I have with the Bible discussion" or something, and have it limited to issues you want to talk about.  As it is now, you left the distinct impression you want this one thread to be home for anything connected to discussions about Bible verses and whatnot, so they don't clutter up the forum.  If you want it the former, you can control the thread.  If you want it to be more open, then it is a place for people to post stuff connected with the Bible.  Either it is your thread, and your topics, or it is a more open one to discuss the Bible and Christian thought.



richardhutnik said:
man-bear-pig said:
@Happyd, in layman's terms, what does the bible say about rape? Try not to use scripture.

I am getting more of this as an impression of what Happyd is saying: What is Christian doctrine about?  Don't use scripture, and only follow what I am addressing, using your own line and reasoning, and don't you dare bring up anything else, because this is MY thread, not yours.  When we are done with showing that the Bible wants men to rape women, we will go into showing how it endorses infanticide.  Then, after then next 20 topics are done, it will become clear than in no place in time should anything with the Bible me in the minds of anyone anywhere.  After this, we can then get back to why all Chick-Fil-A places should be burned to the ground.

What are you talking about... The rape segments were brought up by Wonktonodi in this thread here -> http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4695801

He had brought up parts of the bible that I personally had questions about and opened up the discussion with my peers. Of course it's just one topic among many, so I created a thread to talk about all these kinds of cases, like Seth asked about "Who did Seth marry", and we were able to answer that one. Some are just not as straightforward.

Of course if you post something that isn't related to scripture, it's best to keep it for another thread.

Simple stuff.



happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
man-bear-pig said:
@Happyd, in layman's terms, what does the bible say about rape? Try not to use scripture.

I am getting more of this as an impression of what Happyd is saying: What is Christian doctrine about?  Don't use scripture, and only follow what I am addressing, using your own line and reasoning, and don't you dare bring up anything else, because this is MY thread, not yours.  When we are done with showing that the Bible wants men to rape women, we will go into showing how it endorses infanticide.  Then, after then next 20 topics are done, it will become clear than in no place in time should anything with the Bible me in the minds of anyone anywhere.  After this, we can then get back to why all Chick-Fil-A places should be burned to the ground.

What are you talking about... The rape segments were brought up by Wonktonodi in this thread here -> http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4695801

He had brought up parts of the bible that I personally had questions about and opened up the discussion with my peers. Of course it's just one topic among many, so I created a thread to talk about all these kinds of cases, like Seth asked about "Who did Seth marry", and we were able to answer that one. Some are just not as straightforward.

Of course if you post something that isn't related to scripture, it's best to keep it for another thread.

Simple stuff.

Custom would be this: Start a thread specifically connected with that topic in the general section.  You could even label them.  If you decide to use one thread for multiple subjects, people will have a hard time finding anything in there, if your intent is to go by topic.

Anyhow, at this point, I started a more general one, per your request:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=145903

 

People are free to post Jesus, Man in there, if they like.