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Forums - General Discussion - Shooting at Batman Premiere - 12 dead / Your opinions on gun laws

leatherhat on 20 July 2012
radishhead said:
mrstickball said:
radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the modern world?

Doesn't change the fact he could have done a thousand other things to kill them. Or purchased the gun illegally. We don't know if he owned firearms legally, or illegally.

You magically assume evil people won't be evil if they can't own a gun. That isn't the case. American crime rates have steaidly been decreasing for the past 20 years, despite the fact that gun ownership is at an all-time high.

Furthermore, the availability of carry concealed weapons have done a lot to prevent these types of shootings, or at least mitigate the damage. In the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords, it wasn't a cop that aprehended the suspect, but gun owner with a legal carry permit.

Gun crimes in the UK are almost unheard of - when it happens, it's serious gangs aiming to rob diamond/jewelery shops or something, not just some random guy with a rifle. But I guess you're right in that gun ownership in America has gone past the level of just being able to ban them now, too many people own them, so it's safer to own them than to not

It might have been lower at one point but gun crime in the UK has shot up 110 percent over the past decade. And I assume the gun laws have stayed the same. 



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badgenome on 20 July 2012
leatherhat said:
There is no correlation between gun laws and safety. California has the strictest gun laws and tons of gun crime, West Virginia has almost no gun laws and is one of the safest states. Gun laws do nothing.

And this kid was from California. Clearly, what's really needed is stricter laws to prevent Californians from coming into contact with other Americans.



leatherhat on 20 July 2012
badgenome said:
leatherhat said:
There is no correlation between gun laws and safety. California has the strictest gun laws and tons of gun crime, West Virginia has almost no gun laws and is one of the safest states. Gun laws do nothing.

And this kid was from California. Clearly, what's really needed is stricter laws to prevent Californians from coming into contact with other Americans.


I'm all for a California secession 



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haxxiy on 20 July 2012

Seems like the suspect was an ex-occupy wall street member.



 

 

 

 

 

Allfreedom99 on 20 July 2012
Chandler said:
Guns just don't belong in the hands of civilians. I mean, what's the point? Self defense? Yeah, right. All a gun does is make shit worse.


question for you. Hypothetical. Say someone breaks into your residence or attacks you on the street and comes at you with a knife. Would you rather have a gun or a knife to defend your life?

More Gun control is just what it is, more government control. It gives government more control over how you live your life and choose to protect yourself. If you like more government control in your life thats fine, but I like having the freedom to protect myself and my family with a gun.




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Allfreedom99 on 20 July 2012
Mr Khan said:
Allfreedom99 said:
Despicable. I woke up to this news 2 hours ago as well.

He threw canisters of gas. Possessed high powered rifle and hang guns. Was wearing a gas mask and cevlar/ bullet proof vest. The only description I heard was that he was tall slemdar and a muscular build. Name is James Holmes and he was 24.

On the OP wanting to know about gun laws... There is no way u will stop violent crimes with strict gun laws. Normal citizens will abide by the law. Criminals will still be able to get guns on the black market or secretly.
I disagree with the OP on this. If the theatre allowed concealed carry and I was carrying u better b darn sure I would do everything I could to try and stop him. You see this is the problem. Only law abiding citizens will abide by strict laws. If an experienced gunman was there with a concealed weapon they would have had the power to try and stop him before he killed more.

If they were banned nationwide, it would still be prohibitively difficult. The problem with gun control initiatives is that they haven't been sweeping enough, and that the (no longer necessary) 2nd Amendment is in the way.

And the difference with Switzerland is that they train all citizens of age who are required to maintain those semiautomatics. It's a different country in a different situation than America.

Government cannot simply legislate away evil intent. Governments always have tried to for a long time, but evil intent will always exist. So legislating extensive control won't change it. more government control means less personal freedom and liberty.




radishhead on 20 July 2012
leatherhat said:
radishhead said:
mrstickball said:
radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the modern world?

Doesn't change the fact he could have done a thousand other things to kill them. Or purchased the gun illegally. We don't know if he owned firearms legally, or illegally.

You magically assume evil people won't be evil if they can't own a gun. That isn't the case. American crime rates have steaidly been decreasing for the past 20 years, despite the fact that gun ownership is at an all-time high.

Furthermore, the availability of carry concealed weapons have done a lot to prevent these types of shootings, or at least mitigate the damage. In the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords, it wasn't a cop that aprehended the suspect, but gun owner with a legal carry permit.

Gun crimes in the UK are almost unheard of - when it happens, it's serious gangs aiming to rob diamond/jewelery shops or something, not just some random guy with a rifle. But I guess you're right in that gun ownership in America has gone past the level of just being able to ban them now, too many people own them, so it's safer to own them than to not

It might have been lower at one point but gun crime in the UK has shot up 110 percent over the past decade. And I assume the gun laws have stayed the same. 

Still makes up just 0.3% of all UK crime - and the number is decreasing in England, Wales and Scotland - people are still shooting eachother more regularly in Ireland though



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radishhead on 20 July 2012
Allfreedom99 said:
Chandler said:
Guns just don't belong in the hands of civilians. I mean, what's the point? Self defense? Yeah, right. All a gun does is make shit worse.


question for you. Hypothetical. Say someone breaks into your residence or attacks you on the street and comes at you with a knife. Would you rather have a gun or a knife to defend your life?

More Gun control is just what it is, more government control. It gives government more control over how you live your life and choose to protect yourself. If you like more government control in your life thats fine, but I like having the freedom to protect myself and my family with a gun.

Why would they have a knife if everyone has a gun?



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leatherhat on 20 July 2012
radishhead said:
leatherhat said:
radishhead said:
mrstickball said:
radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the modern world?

Doesn't change the fact he could have done a thousand other things to kill them. Or purchased the gun illegally. We don't know if he owned firearms legally, or illegally.

You magically assume evil people won't be evil if they can't own a gun. That isn't the case. American crime rates have steaidly been decreasing for the past 20 years, despite the fact that gun ownership is at an all-time high.

Furthermore, the availability of carry concealed weapons have done a lot to prevent these types of shootings, or at least mitigate the damage. In the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords, it wasn't a cop that aprehended the suspect, but gun owner with a legal carry permit.

Gun crimes in the UK are almost unheard of - when it happens, it's serious gangs aiming to rob diamond/jewelery shops or something, not just some random guy with a rifle. But I guess you're right in that gun ownership in America has gone past the level of just being able to ban them now, too many people own them, so it's safer to own them than to not

It might have been lower at one point but gun crime in the UK has shot up 110 percent over the past decade. And I assume the gun laws have stayed the same. 

Still makes up just 0.3% of all UK crime - and the number is decreasing in England, Wales and Scotland - people are still shooting eachother more regularly in Ireland though


Can't say about Scotland, but in England and Wales the numbers have shot up from 5,000 gun crimes in 1999 to almost 10,000 in 2010. 



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

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Time for hype

radishhead on 20 July 2012
leatherhat said:
radishhead said:
leatherhat said:
radishhead said:
mrstickball said:
radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the modern world?

Doesn't change the fact he could have done a thousand other things to kill them. Or purchased the gun illegally. We don't know if he owned firearms legally, or illegally.

You magically assume evil people won't be evil if they can't own a gun. That isn't the case. American crime rates have steaidly been decreasing for the past 20 years, despite the fact that gun ownership is at an all-time high.

Furthermore, the availability of carry concealed weapons have done a lot to prevent these types of shootings, or at least mitigate the damage. In the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords, it wasn't a cop that aprehended the suspect, but gun owner with a legal carry permit.

Gun crimes in the UK are almost unheard of - when it happens, it's serious gangs aiming to rob diamond/jewelery shops or something, not just some random guy with a rifle. But I guess you're right in that gun ownership in America has gone past the level of just being able to ban them now, too many people own them, so it's safer to own them than to not

It might have been lower at one point but gun crime in the UK has shot up 110 percent over the past decade. And I assume the gun laws have stayed the same. 

Still makes up just 0.3% of all UK crime - and the number is decreasing in England, Wales and Scotland - people are still shooting eachother more regularly in Ireland though


Can't say about Scotland, but in England and Wales the numbers have shot up from 5,000 gun crimes in 1999 to almost 10,000 in 2010. 

Well, my data was recording from 2006-2012, and showed a decrease, so I'm not sure what happened between 1999 and 2006



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