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Forums - Nintendo - It Continues... Take Two "skeptical" about Wii U

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Mazty on 17 June 2012
the_dengle said:
Mazty said:


How else can you explain the demise of Zynga or the boom & bust sales of Kinect?
All the evidence points towards a very volitile market that clearly doesn't care about graphics etc. What evidence have you provided??

IAll the evidence shows casual gamers are very temperamental. Show me some evidence that suggests otherwise. 

All I have shown you is evidence to the contrary, but you won't see it. Zynga is going under because it's going under. It happens to all sorts of companies all the time. It's currently in the process of happening to Sega, Konami, and THQ. It certainly doesn't indicate a general apathy towards games from your so-called "casual" market.

We've been over this. PS2 sold so well because it played DVDs. It had "casual" support. DS sold so well thanks to Nintendogs, Brain Age, New Super, etc. It had "casual" support. I don't think I have to explain the Wii?

The "casual" games you detest so much were the best-selling games of this generation. If you removed them from the equation, this gen would have been a bust. Every gen would have been a bust -- as I said, it's thanks to people casually interested in games that the NES took off like it did.

But you want more evidence? Alright. Casual gamers don't care to upgrade, eh? Over 90% of the gamers who bought Wii Fit upgraded to Wii Fit Plus two years later. Almost 30 million people have bought into Wii Sports Resort despite already owning the original Wii Sports. Just Dance 2 for Wii saw a 36% growth in sales from the first game in the franchise, released one year earlier. Just Dance 3 is well on its way to passing the sales of its predecessor -- and by the way, so far in 2012, Just Dance 3 on Wii is the best-selling game on a single platform released the previous year. How bout those legs?

Ooh, let's look at one of your favorite examples of a casual game -- Mario Kart 7. Over 5.5 million have already upgraded to a 3DS and bought this game, and you can bet that number will explode again this holiday season.

And one of my favorite "casual" games, Journey, is the best-selling PSN game of all time according to Sony.

You also now say "casual" gamers "don't care about graphics." Well that's good, somebody has to not care about graphics. But shame on them for having fun playing games they like instead of paying twice as much money to play games they don't enjoy that look ten times better.

Honestly, you just sound like you're still bitter about the success of the Wii. Hope that works out for you.

What evidence?! You haven't shown anything other then deny that core gamers exist, which frankly is laughable as even Reggie talks about them:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/06/06/e3-2012-reggie-discusses-launching-wii-u-retro?page=2

"Because it's going under". What? Is it a universal law that is HAS to go under? No, its not so explain why it is going under if it is the owner of one of the biggest casual games to date. 
THQ has had problems with management decisions:
http://kotaku.com/5881479/how-thq-went-from-bad-to-very-bad
As you can see those decisions are obviously unqiue to THQ so stop simplifying everything. 

I never mentioned the PS2...DVDs is a media format & nothing to do with casual support....What you are ignoring is the fact that there is casual support out there right now in the form of smart phones and tablets which frankly do a very good job of playing games. I never said I detest casual games; they are simply not my preference. 
The PS3 and Xbox seemed to have done just fine with no casual games. MW and Halo sold 10's of millions....
I'd like to see the proof for the Wii fit claim please. Wii Sports resort was bundled with the wii and with the motion+ accessory making it a bundled game rather then one where you had to specifically buy it...Just Dance 2 was also a bundled game...Same With Just Dance 3...
Also if these sales mean so much then way are Nintendo shares bombing? 
How is Journey, a heavily stylised game, a casual game? The average person will look at it and go "wtf". Why does someone have to not care about graphics? Personally I'm happy we left 8bit graphics and we shouldn't look back as better graphics lead to better immersion. 

Where have I criticised casual gamers? I haven't so stop with the accusations. I said they are a fickle market that move from the hot-topic to the next, and the WiiU will not be a hot-topic because the wii is "so 2010".



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Mazty on 17 June 2012
zippy said:
Gaming has become very "snobby" these days, i mean kids and casuals have as much right to play and have games developed for them as the so-called hardcore mob. Im very grateful for the Wii as its really ruffled a few feathers and added a whole different variety to the gaming industry. I thought the Playstation brand was getting very stale, and gaming was starting to become very predictable. I think the hardcore gamers are pissed because they dont like change and dont like gaming becoming more mainstream.


Hardcore gamers don't care but we acknowledge that core gaming is a different market to casual gaming, something even Nintendo admit:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/06/06/e3-2012-reggie-discusses-launching-wii-u-retro?page=2



creampie on 17 June 2012

zippy 21 minutes ago

"Gaming has become very "snobby" these days, i mean kids and casuals have as much right to play and have games developed for them as the so-called hardcore mob. Im very grateful for the Wii as its really ruffled a few feathers and added a whole different variety to the gaming industry. I thought the Playstation brand was getting very stale, and gaming was starting to become very predictable. I think the hardcore gamers are pissed because they dont like change and dont like gaming becoming more mainstream."

Nice post dude, you have a point there.. :)



the_dengle on 17 June 2012
Mazty said:


I'd like to see the proof for the Wii fit claim please.


How is Journey, a heavily stylised game, a casual game?

@bolded: you are on a sales website. Go look at some sales figures. Do some basic math. 90%.

You pretty much ignored everything else I said. Bundles don't really mean much, especially since there are a lot of different Wii bundles, and thus a lot of options. People weren't just getting Just Dance by accident because it was bundled. They were buying Wiis to get Just Dance.

Wii Sports and Mario Kart are also heavily stylized. Journey is family-friendly and highly accessible. It requires no skill to play through. You literally cannot lose. It's less expensive than a full retail game. And it can be cleared in a matter of a few hours. Journey is as "casual" as they come.

I don't know Zynga's whole life story, okay? I don't know what you want me to say. Zynga is failing because they made the mistake of making casual games, and the casual market has abandoned them? Okay? Nintendo is succeeding because they made the brilliant decision to make casual games, and the casual market is keeping them afloat. Ubisoft is thriving thanks to Just Dance, their 3 best-selling games.

Where you see  a fickle market, I see a simple lack of brand loyalty. "Casual" gamers aren't moving from one fad to the next, they just don't owe their allegiance to a single company. They follow the games that appeal to them. Asking the game industry to stop trying to appeal to casual gamers is like asking a political candidate to stop courting the independent voters. It wouldn't make any sense at all from their perspective.

And by the way, you criticized casual gamers when you said "they don't care about quality...they care about the most shallow things." That's a criticism if ever I've heard one.



Mazty on 17 June 2012
the_dengle said:
Mazty said:


I'd like to see the proof for the Wii fit claim please.


How is Journey, a heavily stylised game, a casual game?

@bolded: you are on a sales website. Go look at some sales figures. Do some basic math. 90%.

You pretty much ignored everything else I said. Bundles don't really mean much, especially since there are a lot of different Wii bundles, and thus a lot of options. People weren't just getting Just Dance by accident because it was bundled. They were buying Wiis to get Just Dance.

Wii Sports and Mario Kart are also heavily stylized. Journey is family-friendly and highly accessible. It requires no skill to play through. You literally cannot lose. It's less expensive than a full retail game. And it can be cleared in a matter of a few hours. Journey is as "casual" as they come.

I don't know Zynga's whole life story, okay? I don't know what you want me to say. Zynga is failing because they made the mistake of making casual games, and the casual market has abandoned them? Okay? Nintendo is succeeding because they made the brilliant decision to make casual games, and the casual market is keeping them afloat. Ubisoft is thriving thanks to Just Dance, their 3 best-selling games.

Where you see  a fickle market, I see a simple lack of brand loyalty. "Casual" gamers aren't moving from one fad to the next, they just don't owe their allegiance to a single company. They follow the games that appeal to them. Asking the game industry to stop trying to appeal to casual gamers is like asking a political candidate to stop courting the independent voters. It wouldn't make any sense at all from their perspective.

And by the way, you criticized casual gamers when you said "they don't care about quality...they care about the most shallow things." That's a criticism if ever I've heard one.

You said:
" Over 90% of the gamers who bought Wii Fit upgraded to Wii Fit Plus two years later "

You have no evidence to prove that it was previous wii fit owners who upgraded. All you have is raw sales data, not consumer information. Busted. 

Your claims are so basic they  don't hold up against scrutiny. The sales of bundled games shows what? The wii sold? We both know that. Bundles mean a lot due to the long times the wii bundles exist. 

Journey is not family freindly because it's single player and boring to watch. Reggie describes casual games as "experiences that could be in a party-type atmosphere" does Journey strike you as a party game? You clearly do not know what casual gaming is. 
If Nintendo is succeedng then why are their shares diving down? I would hardly consider a dying share price as being "kept afloat". More like "sinking ship". 
I don't care if Nintendo tries to appeal to the casual gamer but I do know that it will cost them dearly. 
Casual gamers don't care about quality. When was the last time a casual talked about graphical fidelity or AI?



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AndrewWK on 17 June 2012

So that means no Bioshock, Dishonored or Max Payne for the Wii U?
Poor Nintendo fans



creampie on 17 June 2012

^^
dont worry
we wont be missing them...



Galaki on 17 June 2012

Zynga seems to be failing now mainly due to saturation point.
It relies heavily on the number of facebook users, especially new users.

The mechanics of facebook games are all every similar. It relies on spamming (your friends) to get anything or spend an obscene amount of money to get similar result.

IMO, their facebook casual games are not even in the same vein as the console casual games. Facebook games relies heavily on spamming to get bored people to try their games.
Meanwhile, console games are usually simple non-violence games and great for pick-up-and-play in short bursts. You play when you want and how you want. No spamming your friends for action points to give you a few extra clicks.



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

babuks on 17 June 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
babuks said:
How much is it difficult to port those ps360 games to WiiU? If it sells 300-500K, will not they make profit out of it?

Am i the only one that finds your avatar creepy?



Not sure, but there are people who appreciated my avatar :P  



JazzB1987 on 17 June 2012
RolStoppable said:
Self-fulfilling prophecy.

1) Don't release what are considered big core games.
2) Claim that big core games don't sell on the platform. (Because they weren't released for it.)
3) Use this as justification for your initial decision. See point 1).


1) agreed
2) agreed
3) agreed

plus if they put 1000 casual games on the system or bad ports. People will remember how bad those ports are and wont give them a second chance OR cant even find the good games because there is a ton of crap. How is a customer supposed to find 1 good game in an ocean of bad ones? Its like looking for 1 specific grain of sand at the beach.