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Forums - General Discussion - Who's the strongest super hero? (No anime!)

Epic_Bro_Fist on 03 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Dr. Manhaton isn't that powerful at all, there are versions of Superman that could manhandle him with the utmost of ease.

... until Manhattan simply breaks Superman apart on the molecular level and redistributes his particles into a red sun.


Yeah the version of Superman that was able to defeat Mandrakk or the one that was able to stop the Atmos universe from collapsing, I think not. 

So... Manhattan can't be killed by anything Superman could do (he could simply teleport, move his atoms, rematerialize if vaporized, whatever) and could simply shift Superman to anywhere he liked (or just rip him into several pieces... Superman is strong but there's nothing suggesting that Manhattan couldn't simply reverse the polarity of atoms and tear him apart) but Superman would still win? How?

The best you could argue is that Superman's molecules are too strong to rip apart and therefore, would stalemate with Manhattan. But beat him? No, not really. You can't beat a guy who can restructure his own molecular makeup unless you have a method of teleporting him to another dimension or something of that sort.

Well the version of Superman that defeated Mandrakk aka Cosmic (monitor) armor Superman was able to take hits from Mandrakk a guy that could destroy multiple universes and he could dish out even stronger attacks, there wouldn't even be a mollecule of Dr. Manhaton left. that version of Superman also held the power of being able to adapt to any kind of threat. Although if you wan't to argue that Dr. Manhaton would still some how survive, then Corsmic armor superman would probably send him to limbo.

 

Let me ask you a question.... have you read Watchmen?

It's not that Doctor Manhatten can destroy universes.

It's that he can make them cease to exist.

By the time you adapt to that... well you don't exist.

To quote watchmen "God Exists, and he's American."

Dr. Manhattan more or less represented a christ like god who was unstoppable.  

It's also worth noting, that unless your using a very specific kind of radiation.  Dr. Manhatten knows what your going to do before you do it, because he lives in all moments at once and can pick whichever future he wants.


Many character are seen as gods in diferent fictions, the question is whether they have the feats tp support their nigh-omnipotence. 

the bolded is a character statement and can be seen as an nlf. 

Cosmic armor superman has adapted to people like Mandrakk who are way above people like DR. Manhaton. Also I would like to see this feat by Dr. Manhoton of him making universes cease to exist and alo being omni-present. 

Do yourself a favor and actually read watchmen then.

Manhatten has control over all atoms on an atomic level to the point of where being atomized disables him for about a half a second, and canonically is mentioned to have precognition in that he lives every single moment at the same time.

There ain't shit superman can do about that.  Not even Precrisis superman can avoid just being blinked out of existance via atom manipulation.

Read Final Crisis and Superman Beyond 3D. 

Cosmic Armor Superman held the DC Multiverse that consisted of 52 universes, holds the power of dimension manipulation ,survived a blast that held the power of ten billion suns, and Defeated mandrak a multiversal threat.  

 

He was also stated canonically to be able to adapt to any type of threat. 

There ain't shit that DR. Manhaton can do about that. 



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Kasz216 on 03 June 2012
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Dr. Manhaton isn't that powerful at all, there are versions of Superman that could manhandle him with the utmost of ease.

... until Manhattan simply breaks Superman apart on the molecular level and redistributes his particles into a red sun.


Yeah the version of Superman that was able to defeat Mandrakk or the one that was able to stop the Atmos universe from collapsing, I think not. 

So... Manhattan can't be killed by anything Superman could do (he could simply teleport, move his atoms, rematerialize if vaporized, whatever) and could simply shift Superman to anywhere he liked (or just rip him into several pieces... Superman is strong but there's nothing suggesting that Manhattan couldn't simply reverse the polarity of atoms and tear him apart) but Superman would still win? How?

The best you could argue is that Superman's molecules are too strong to rip apart and therefore, would stalemate with Manhattan. But beat him? No, not really. You can't beat a guy who can restructure his own molecular makeup unless you have a method of teleporting him to another dimension or something of that sort.

Well the version of Superman that defeated Mandrakk aka Cosmic (monitor) armor Superman was able to take hits from Mandrakk a guy that could destroy multiple universes and he could dish out even stronger attacks, there wouldn't even be a mollecule of Dr. Manhaton left. that version of Superman also held the power of being able to adapt to any kind of threat. Although if you wan't to argue that Dr. Manhaton would still some how survive, then Corsmic armor superman would probably send him to limbo.

 

Let me ask you a question.... have you read Watchmen?

It's not that Doctor Manhatten can destroy universes.

It's that he can make them cease to exist.

By the time you adapt to that... well you don't exist.

To quote watchmen "God Exists, and he's American."

Dr. Manhattan more or less represented a christ like god who was unstoppable.  

It's also worth noting, that unless your using a very specific kind of radiation.  Dr. Manhatten knows what your going to do before you do it, because he lives in all moments at once and can pick whichever future he wants.


Many character are seen as gods in diferent fictions, the question is whether they have the feats tp support their nigh-omnipotence. 

the bolded is a character statement and can be seen as an nlf. 

Cosmic armor superman has adapted to people like Mandrakk who are way above people like DR. Manhaton. Also I would like to see this feat by Dr. Manhoton of him making universes cease to exist and alo being omni-present. 

Do yourself a favor and actually read watchmen then.

Manhatten has control over all atoms on an atomic level to the point of where being atomized disables him for about a half a second, and canonically is mentioned to have precognition in that he lives every single moment at the same time.

There ain't shit superman can do about that.  Not even Precrisis superman can avoid just being blinked out of existance via atom manipulation.

Read Final Crisis and Superman Beyond 3D. 

Cosmic Armor Superman held the DC Multiverse that consisted of 52 universes, holds the power of dimension manipulation ,survived a blast that held the power of ten billion suns, and Defeated mandrak a multiversal threat.  

 

He was also stated canonically to be able to adapt to any type of threat. 

There ain't shit that DR. Manhaton can do about that. 

I have... those supermen aren't even remotely at Dr Manhatten's level.

You'd likely need Living Tribunal level power to deal with Manhatten.



Epic_Bro_Fist on 04 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
rocketpig said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Dr. Manhaton isn't that powerful at all, there are versions of Superman that could manhandle him with the utmost of ease.

... until Manhattan simply breaks Superman apart on the molecular level and redistributes his particles into a red sun.


Yeah the version of Superman that was able to defeat Mandrakk or the one that was able to stop the Atmos universe from collapsing, I think not. 

So... Manhattan can't be killed by anything Superman could do (he could simply teleport, move his atoms, rematerialize if vaporized, whatever) and could simply shift Superman to anywhere he liked (or just rip him into several pieces... Superman is strong but there's nothing suggesting that Manhattan couldn't simply reverse the polarity of atoms and tear him apart) but Superman would still win? How?

The best you could argue is that Superman's molecules are too strong to rip apart and therefore, would stalemate with Manhattan. But beat him? No, not really. You can't beat a guy who can restructure his own molecular makeup unless you have a method of teleporting him to another dimension or something of that sort.

Well the version of Superman that defeated Mandrakk aka Cosmic (monitor) armor Superman was able to take hits from Mandrakk a guy that could destroy multiple universes and he could dish out even stronger attacks, there wouldn't even be a mollecule of Dr. Manhaton left. that version of Superman also held the power of being able to adapt to any kind of threat. Although if you wan't to argue that Dr. Manhaton would still some how survive, then Corsmic armor superman would probably send him to limbo.

 

Let me ask you a question.... have you read Watchmen?

It's not that Doctor Manhatten can destroy universes.

It's that he can make them cease to exist.

By the time you adapt to that... well you don't exist.

To quote watchmen "God Exists, and he's American."

Dr. Manhattan more or less represented a christ like god who was unstoppable.  

It's also worth noting, that unless your using a very specific kind of radiation.  Dr. Manhatten knows what your going to do before you do it, because he lives in all moments at once and can pick whichever future he wants.


Many character are seen as gods in diferent fictions, the question is whether they have the feats tp support their nigh-omnipotence. 

the bolded is a character statement and can be seen as an nlf. 

Cosmic armor superman has adapted to people like Mandrakk who are way above people like DR. Manhaton. Also I would like to see this feat by Dr. Manhoton of him making universes cease to exist and alo being omni-present. 

Do yourself a favor and actually read watchmen then.

Manhatten has control over all atoms on an atomic level to the point of where being atomized disables him for about a half a second, and canonically is mentioned to have precognition in that he lives every single moment at the same time.

There ain't shit superman can do about that.  Not even Precrisis superman can avoid just being blinked out of existance via atom manipulation.

Read Final Crisis and Superman Beyond 3D. 

Cosmic Armor Superman held the DC Multiverse that consisted of 52 universes, holds the power of dimension manipulation ,survived a blast that held the power of ten billion suns, and Defeated mandrak a multiversal threat.  

 

He was also stated canonically to be able to adapt to any type of threat. 

There ain't shit that DR. Manhaton can do about that. 

I have... those supermen aren't even remotely at Dr Manhatten's level.

You'd likely need Living Tribunal/Spectre when fully backed by TOAA level power to deal with Manhatten.


With all do respect, your wanking the shit out of Dr. Manhaton. 

The guy has limited feats from what we have seen in the comics, your speculating way to much since he never shows his upper limit and actually believe that he can withstand the likes of universal attacks(when he never showed anything close to that) just because he reformed himself from the mollecular level, news flash when some one can destroy universes there wont be any mollecules left. 

 

You also believe that only nigh-omnipotents to omnipotents in power are the only people to chalange and/or defeat him, thats just wrong really wrong. 

 

Although I'll humor you, can you post a feat by Dr. Manhaton that is even seemingly close to that of TOAA or hell even Cosmic Armor Superman.  



monkeymonk65 on 04 June 2012

Spider-Man!!!



Kasz216 on 04 June 2012
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
 

 

 

Read Final Crisis and Superman Beyond 3D. 

Cosmic Armor Superman held the DC Multiverse that consisted of 52 universes, holds the power of dimension manipulation ,survived a blast that held the power of ten billion suns, and Defeated mandrak a multiversal threat.  

 

He was also stated canonically to be able to adapt to any type of threat. 

There ain't shit that DR. Manhaton can do about that. 

I have... those supermen aren't even remotely at Dr Manhatten's level.

You'd likely need Living Tribunal/Spectre when fully backed by TOAA level power to deal with Manhatten.


With all do respect, your wanking the shit out of Dr. Manhaton. 

The guy has limited feats from what we have seen in the comics, your speculating way to much since he never shows his upper limit and actually believe that he can withstand the likes of universal attacks(when he never showed anything close to that) just because he reformed himself from the mollecular level, news flash when some one can destroy universes there wont be any mollecules left. 

 

You also believe that only nigh-omnipotents to omnipotents in power are the only people to chalange and/or defeat him, thats just wrong really wrong. 

 

Although I'll humor you, can you post a feat by Dr. Manhaton that is even seemingly close to that of TOAA or hell even Cosmic Armor Superman.  

Dr. Manhatten had his molecules destroyed... and then he came back to life. 

Not sure why you think that molecules being destroyed would kill him. 

Again, actually read watchmen.... it explains his powers there without hyperbole in strict sceintific terms.

Hell it ends with Dr. Manhatten consdiering making his own sentient lifeforms.

At the end of the series Dr. Manhatten is an essentially all powerful, omnipotent being that suddenly beleives in self determination.  (Lack of self determination being the reason he didn't do much  beforehand.)  

That essentially means he lives at every point in time at the same time, and points that aren't even going to happen.

 

Unless superman can somehow destroy not only the present and future, but the past, and all divergent timelines at once, before Dr. Manhatten decides to wipe superman from exsistence... i'm not sure how you expect him to win... considering that everything is more or less the same strength and the molecular level, hell, starting off newbie killing communists in vietnam Dr M. should be enough.



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Epic_Bro_Fist on 04 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:


With all do respect, your wanking the shit out of Dr. Manhaton. 

The guy has limited feats from what we have seen in the comics, your speculating way to much since he never shows his upper limit and actually believe that he can withstand the likes of universal attacks(when he never showed anything close to that) just because he reformed himself from the mollecular level, news flash when some one can destroy universes there wont be any mollecules left. 

 

You also believe that only nigh-omnipotents to omnipotents in power are the only people to chalange and/or defeat him, thats just wrong really wrong. 

 

Although I'll humor you, can you post a feat by Dr. Manhaton that is even seemingly close to that of TOAA or hell even Cosmic Armor Superman.  

Dr. Manhatten had his molecules destroyed... and then he came back to life. 

Not sure why you think that molecules being destroyed would kill him.

Again, actually read watchmen.... it explains his powers there without hyperbole in strict sceintific terms.

Hell it ends with Dr. Manhatten consdiering making his own sentient lifeforms.

At the end of the series Dr. Manhatten is an essentially all powerful, omnipotent being that suddenly beleives in self determination.  (Lack of self determination being the reason he didn't do much  beforehand.)  


Except he has never experianced anything on the levels that people like CAS or Michael Demiurgos can dish out, all he has done is been able to reform his body from complete destruction.

Im commenting on your complete control of all atoms statement. 

except most of the people that you have stated he could defeat have way better showings of abilities than hime while you believe he is stronger of speculation of what was stated about his power. 

There are many people who have the ability to make their own sentinent life forms or create their own universes and have actually done so instead of just contemplating it, unless they show an actuall feat what do we have outside of speculation. 

Again post a feat of omnipotence or anything close to it instead of speculation, also lack of self determination already disproves omnipotence. 

 

Edit: Actually you know what, Superman Prime goes back in time and kills Doctor Manhatan before the accident gg.



Kasz216 on 04 June 2012
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:


With all do respect, your wanking the shit out of Dr. Manhaton. 

The guy has limited feats from what we have seen in the comics, your speculating way to much since he never shows his upper limit and actually believe that he can withstand the likes of universal attacks(when he never showed anything close to that) just because he reformed himself from the mollecular level, news flash when some one can destroy universes there wont be any mollecules left. 

 

You also believe that only nigh-omnipotents to omnipotents in power are the only people to chalange and/or defeat him, thats just wrong really wrong. 

 

Although I'll humor you, can you post a feat by Dr. Manhaton that is even seemingly close to that of TOAA or hell even Cosmic Armor Superman.  

Dr. Manhatten had his molecules destroyed... and then he came back to life. 

Not sure why you think that molecules being destroyed would kill him.

Again, actually read watchmen.... it explains his powers there without hyperbole in strict sceintific terms.

Hell it ends with Dr. Manhatten consdiering making his own sentient lifeforms.

At the end of the series Dr. Manhatten is an essentially all powerful, omnipotent being that suddenly beleives in self determination.  (Lack of self determination being the reason he didn't do much  beforehand.)  


Except he has never experianced anything on the levels that people like CAS or Michael Demiurgos can dish out, all he has done is been able to reform his body from complete destruction.

Im commenting on your complete control of all atoms statement. 

except most of the people that you have stated he could defeat have way better showings of abilities than hime while you believe he is stronger of speculation of what was stated about his power. 

There are many people who have the ability to make their own sentinent life forms or create their own universes and have actually done so instead of just contemplating it, unless they show an actuall feat what do we have outside of speculation. 

Again post a feat of omnipotence or anything close to it instead of speculation, also lack of self determination already disproves omnipotence. 

"All he's been able to do is reform his body from complete desctruction."

Seriously?  How many superheros have a better feat then reform their body from complete destruction?  That's far beyond anything CAS has done.  I mean think about it.  Everything about him was destroyed, yet somehow he wasn't really even inconveinced by that.

Punching harder doesn't make things atomize harder.

And no.  Lack of self determination doesn't disprove omnipotence.

Well, unless you don't think God is Omnipotent... since it's meant to be another paralel.



Epic_Bro_Fist on 04 June 2012
Kasz216 said:

"All he's been able to do is reform his body from complete desctruction."

Seriously?  How many superheros have a better feat then reform their body from complete destruction?  That's far beyond anything CAS has done.  I mean think about it.  Everything about him was destroyed, yet somehow he wasn't really even inconveinced by that.

Punching harder doesn't make things atomize harder.

And no.  Lack of self determination doesn't disprove omnipotence.

Well, unless you don't think God is Omnipotent... since it's meant to be another paralel.

Sorry I edited my post, Superman Prime goes back in time and kills Doctor Manhatan before the accident. 

Also to comment on the God parralel, if your omnipotent that means you have no weakness while we obviously see that Manhatan has a glaring weakness to Tachyons. 



Kasz216 on 04 June 2012
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:

"All he's been able to do is reform his body from complete desctruction."

Seriously?  How many superheros have a better feat then reform their body from complete destruction?  That's far beyond anything CAS has done.  I mean think about it.  Everything about him was destroyed, yet somehow he wasn't really even inconveinced by that.

Punching harder doesn't make things atomize harder.

And no.  Lack of self determination doesn't disprove omnipotence.

Well, unless you don't think God is Omnipotent... since it's meant to be another paralel.

Sorry I edited my post, Superman Prime goes back in time and kills Doctor Manhatan before the accident. 

Also to comment on the God parralel, if your omnipotent that means you have no weakness while we obviously see that Manhatan has a glaring weakness to Tachyons. 

So I'm guessing you've never actually read DC One Million and got confused based on the fact that there are three different supermen in that book.  Or you mean, Superboy Prime which... is just a joke to think he stands a chance.

Outside which, it's not like Tachyons are his Kryptonite, they just affect his ability to see in the "future".

Superman Prime, if he had time travel powers (he doesn't.) goes back in time, to kill Dr. M before he's transformed except, Dr. M knows that and kills him.

Since he views all time at once.  Including before the accident.  Tachyons don't help, because he's seeing the past.

 

I mean, consider facing someone who perceives all time at the same time.  They will ALWAYS know what you are going to do, before you do it.

 

Hate to ruin the story further by explaining the meaning for it if you haven't read watchmen.



Epic_Bro_Fist on 04 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
Epic_Bro_Fist said:
Kasz216 said:

"All he's been able to do is reform his body from complete desctruction."

Seriously?  How many superheros have a better feat then reform their body from complete destruction?  That's far beyond anything CAS has done.  I mean think about it.  Everything about him was destroyed, yet somehow he wasn't really even inconveinced by that.

Punching harder doesn't make things atomize harder.

And no.  Lack of self determination doesn't disprove omnipotence.

Well, unless you don't think God is Omnipotent... since it's meant to be another paralel.

Sorry I edited my post, Superman Prime goes back in time and kills Doctor Manhatan before the accident. 

Also to comment on the God parralel, if your omnipotent that means you have no weakness while we obviously see that Manhatan has a glaring weakness to Tachyons. 

So I'm guessing you've never actually read DC One Million and got confused based on the fact that there are three different supermen in that book.

Outside which, it's not like Tachyons are his Kryptonite, they just affect his ability to see in the "future".

Superman Prime, if he had time travel powers (he doesn't.) goes back in time, to kill Dr. M before he's transformed except, Dr. M knows that and kills him.

Since he views all time at once.  Including before the accident.

It doesn't have to be Superman just naming a hero that has time travel, It can be the time trapper for all I care. 

Hes not omnipotent if he has something that can weaken him or serves as a weakness. 

It doesn't matter if Doctor Manhaton knows or doesn't because Superman or whatever character goes back in time before the accident and kill Manhaton, that simple. Manhaton hasn't even shown any power that could allow hime to stop time manipulaters so therefore he dies. 

 

Also you seem to keep making a point for omnipotence even though your wrong, deal with it. now your arguing for omniscients when even though you have nothing to back it up except for telling me to read the comic, back up your claim with visual evidence because there is nothing that definitely proves what you claim.