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Forums - General - Is evolution based on empirical science?

These threads are such a waste of time. If someone can't be bothered to go through the vast amounts of research that has been done or is too dull to comprehend what it means, a few paragraphs in a video game forum definitely won't convince them.

"and as far me not supporting a theory without concrete evidence even though the scientific community says otherwise? That's a completely different story, and one best kept to myself."

It's absolutely pointless arguing with the above. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his fingers in his ears.





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Paul said:
These threads are such a waste of time. If someone can't be bothered to go through the vast amounts of research that has been done or is too dull to comprehend what it means, a few paragraphs in a video game forum definitely won't convince them.

"and as far me not supporting a theory without concrete evidence even though the scientific community says otherwise? That's a completely different story, and one best kept to myself."

It's absolutely pointless arguing with the above. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his fingers in his ears.

You're missing my point...I was saying I support microevolution, but am not fully convinced about macroevolution. I've been told that I'm misunderstanding it, so I'm asking for it to be clarified.

But whatever you say...



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

With yet another attempt at a thread that will fail to convince anyone to believe otherwise, and this has to be the weakest, most perfunctory one yet, one has to question whether the point is is really just some exercise in affirming one's own religious beliefs, because no one else here is buying.

If one wantsto believe in magical djinn that can conjure anything and everything out of nothing, that's great



huaxiong90 said:
Paul said:
These threads are such a waste of time. If someone can't be bothered to go through the vast amounts of research that has been done or is too dull to comprehend what it means, a few paragraphs in a video game forum definitely won't convince them.

"and as far me not supporting a theory without concrete evidence even though the scientific community says otherwise? That's a completely different story, and one best kept to myself."

It's absolutely pointless arguing with the above. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his fingers in his ears.

You're missing my point...I was saying I support microevolution, but am not fully convinced about macroevolution. I've been told that I'm misunderstanding it, so I'm asking for it to be clarified.

But whatever you say...

There are many books on the subject written by experts in the field, written at a level where dullards like you and I can understand them. If those books don't convince you, you can enroll in the biology department at your local univesity. If you still aren't convinced after that you're a dullard.

Why Evolution Is True by Jerry Coyne is pretty good. You can start with that.

The example you're looking for would be how an ancient land animal (probably something that would look closest to a modern day hippo)  evolved over millions of years into whales. Whales actually have underformed leg bones that aren't connected to the rest of their skelleton, quite interesting.





Ladies and gentlemen, it's extremists like this that make me hate religion, and laugh at its complete lack of intelligence.



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huaxiong90 said:
Rath said:
huaxiong90 said:

Cirio said:

Also, macroevolution is simply a series of microevolutions put together; they both explain the same concepts and observations only macroevolution is at a greater scale. In fact, the two terms are pointless because they explain the same thing, but for whatever reason many creationists choose to use macroevolution as a scapegoat or as the basis of their arguments because they don't have any other evidence to back their claims. If you're arguing against macroevolution but supporting microevolution, then you unfortunately don't know what you're talking about...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of microevolution and macroevolution. Enlighten me, then. And I don't mean simplistic explanations like the underlined. Actually explain what changes within the species, give examples of this that can be supported, instead of insulting me, saying "the nonsense I'm spewing is just embarrassing" (assuming you were referring to me when you said that).

Also, I'm a religious person. But some of the nonsense a few creationists spew is sometimes embarrassing.

Honestly, I should have just quit this thread after my first post, as I REALLY do not want to be entangled in a battle of semantics, but whatever...

Microevolution generally refers to small changes over shorter periods of time, macroevolution consists of a series of small changes that amount to a larger change over a longer period of time. The only difference between the two is the scale at which you are observing.

I also question why you think evolution is a theory without a great deal of evidence? It is considered in the scientific community to be one of the theories with the greatest deal of evidence behind it. To take a quote from the National Academy of Sciences

"Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong."

Dude, I didn't ask for basic definitions. I mean, give an example. Explain the scale of these changes.

And as far me not supporting a theory (i.e. Macroevolution) without concrete evidence even though the scientific community says otherwise? That's a completely different story, and one best kept to myself.

Microevolutions take place. There is no doubt about that. Over hundreds of millions of generations, these microevolutions add up, and although when you look through the years at normal speed very little noticeable change takes place, comparing a species today to its ancestors 100 million years ago will show you that enormous changes have taken place.

Think of the time since the fall of the Roman empire and multiply it by roughly 2.3 million and you have the sort of timescale we're looking at here.



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huaxiong90 said:
Paul said:
These threads are such a waste of time. If someone can't be bothered to go through the vast amounts of research that has been done or is too dull to comprehend what it means, a few paragraphs in a video game forum definitely won't convince them.

"and as far me not supporting a theory without concrete evidence even though the scientific community says otherwise? That's a completely different story, and one best kept to myself."

It's absolutely pointless arguing with the above. It's like arguing with a 4 year old with his fingers in his ears.

You're missing my point...I was saying I support microevolution, but am not fully convinced about macroevolution. I've been told that I'm misunderstanding it, so I'm asking for it to be clarified.

But whatever you say...

I posted a semi-joke post earlier showing how different selections pressures has resulted a wide variety of different domestic dog breeds. That's essentially macro-evolution in practice and shows clear phenotypic differentiation between different breeds descended from a common ancestor. 

What some people earlier have said about minor changes in micro-evolution add up and essentially lead to macro-evolution is essentially correct. However, we are still discovering new methods that micro-evolution can advance in the field of epigenetics that can result in a relatively quick change at the macro scale.

Basically, it's not all down to our genes but also how are genes are expressed (which helps explains how we can share nearly 50% of our genes with a banana!). A change in environment results in differences in the expression of our genes. Some being turned off, others stimulating RNA and protein production which essentially alters our body in some way. This expression pattern can then be passed on to our offspring (particularly when the mother is pregnant and changes affect the womb environment). This, on top of mutations and transposons can have major effects and lead to macroevolution as in the dog examples above.

Not that their aren't gaps in our knowledge, but the core of the macro-evolution theory is still correct.



huaxiong90 said:

Cirio said:

Also, macroevolution is simply a series of microevolutions put together; they both explain the same concepts and observations only macroevolution is at a greater scale. In fact, the two terms are pointless because they explain the same thing, but for whatever reason many creationists choose to use macroevolution as a scapegoat or as the basis of their arguments because they don't have any other evidence to back their claims. If you're arguing against macroevolution but supporting microevolution, then you unfortunately don't know what you're talking about...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of microevolution and macroevolution. Enlighten me, then. And I don't mean simplistic explanations like the underlined. Actually explain what changes within the species, give examples of this that can be supported, instead of insulting me, saying "the nonsense I'm spewing is just embarrassing" (assuming you were referring to me when you said that).

Also, I'm a religious person. But some of the nonsense a few creationists spew is sometimes embarrassing.

Honestly, I should have just quit this thread after my first post, as I REALLY do not want to be entangled in a battle of semantics, but whatever...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=examples+of+macroevolution

Enlighten yourself.