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Forums - Gaming Discussion - More discussions with SE's Wada: tune change delux

Branko2166 said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
I think to be fair there is no chance Square will release FFXIII on the wii as they take the approach of improving their main series FF games in terms of scope and graphics. It is possible however that on the next Nintendo console Square may consider moving to Nintendo but only if Nintendo provides them with a platform which can improve on FFXIII. Also Nintendo will likely need to establish a dominant market share ~70% by the end of this generation.

Square-Enix are not the graphics whores their fans make them out to be, if they were they wouldn't have focused on the Playstation or PS2 and the Nintendo DS wouldn't be seeing so much support today. Certainly, it is unlikely that the Wii will see Final Fantasy XIII because it is (probably) too far along in development to include the Wii but that doesn't mean the Wii couldn't get Final Fantasy XIV (or a remake/spinnoff of a previous final fantasy game).

I'm fairly certain that most of Square Enix's board is quite terrified right now because their combined projects on the PS3 are probably the most expenisve thing they have ever produced; even surpassing Final Fantasy: The Spirits within. If the trend continues of PS3 games selling 1/4 to 1/3 what their PS2 equilivalent games did, Square Enix is in a position where they will likely lose (a lot) of money on these PS3 projects which could put them in a similar position as when Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was released (nearly bankrupt).


Regarding your second paragraph how can u seriously even suggest that development costs for a couple of ps3 games compares to the Spirits within movie. The losses alone for that movie were in excess of $120 million dollars. Having said that I will happily rescind my statement if you provide sources which support your claim

 

 


Well (currently) there are 3 games that have been confirmed to be released for the PS3 (Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, and The Last Remnant) and there are several rumored games ... It is also well know that a PS3 game can cost between $20 and $40 Million to develop, and if a company decided to go a little crazy it could surpass that; if you have 6 games in development with an average budget of $30 Million you have a fortune invested in the PS3.



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HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
I think to be fair there is no chance Square will release FFXIII on the wii as they take the approach of improving their main series FF games in terms of scope and graphics. It is possible however that on the next Nintendo console Square may consider moving to Nintendo but only if Nintendo provides them with a platform which can improve on FFXIII. Also Nintendo will likely need to establish a dominant market share ~70% by the end of this generation.

Square-Enix are not the graphics whores their fans make them out to be, if they were they wouldn't have focused on the Playstation or PS2 and the Nintendo DS wouldn't be seeing so much support today. Certainly, it is unlikely that the Wii will see Final Fantasy XIII because it is (probably) too far along in development to include the Wii but that doesn't mean the Wii couldn't get Final Fantasy XIV (or a remake/spinnoff of a previous final fantasy game).

I'm fairly certain that most of Square Enix's board is quite terrified right now because their combined projects on the PS3 are probably the most expenisve thing they have ever produced; even surpassing Final Fantasy: The Spirits within. If the trend continues of PS3 games selling 1/4 to 1/3 what their PS2 equilivalent games did, Square Enix is in a position where they will likely lose (a lot) of money on these PS3 projects which could put them in a similar position as when Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was released (nearly bankrupt).


Regarding your second paragraph how can u seriously even suggest that development costs for a couple of ps3 games compares to the Spirits within movie. The losses alone for that movie were in excess of $120 million dollars. Having said that I will happily rescind my statement if you provide sources which support your claim

 

 


Well (currently) there are 3 games that have been confirmed to be released for the PS3 (Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, and The Last Remnant) and there are several rumored games ... It is also well know that a PS3 game can cost between $20 and $40 Million to develop, and if a company decided to go a little crazy it could surpass that; if you have 6 games in development with an average budget of $30 Million you have a fortune invested in the PS3.


So if SE has 3 games in developement for PS3, and they seem to be a lot more expensive then the average PS3 game, we can say they have for about $100 million in development cost.

Let's say they make $20,- profit on each game.

Those 3 games have to sell 5 million games combined to break even. That's seems pretty doable to me considering one of those is FF13.



Basically he said nothing which is par for the course when it comes to corporate executives. They will develop what the consider are the right games for the right platforms for the right reasons. I am afraid people generally read too much into this corporate jargon.

All he has basically done is reiterate what they have been doing all along splitting their development efforts between all the major consoles. Trying to focus the games they design towards the respective audiences. Nothing new about that, and nothing that couldn't be divined by reading a release list.

The only question, and it still remains the critical question is this. What does Square think the Nintendo Wii owners want. Remember this console has done surprisingly well despite not having the last Final Fantasies, or all that much in the way of RPGs period. So there are conflicting signals.

There is hope though given the success of Mario titles on the Wii. Perhaps Square could finally get around to delivering another Super Mario RPG. I actually think such a title would be a massive hit on the Wii. Perhaps wracking up Galaxy or Mario Party level sales.



BengaBenga said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
I think to be fair there is no chance Square will release FFXIII on the wii as they take the approach of improving their main series FF games in terms of scope and graphics. It is possible however that on the next Nintendo console Square may consider moving to Nintendo but only if Nintendo provides them with a platform which can improve on FFXIII. Also Nintendo will likely need to establish a dominant market share ~70% by the end of this generation.

Square-Enix are not the graphics whores their fans make them out to be, if they were they wouldn't have focused on the Playstation or PS2 and the Nintendo DS wouldn't be seeing so much support today. Certainly, it is unlikely that the Wii will see Final Fantasy XIII because it is (probably) too far along in development to include the Wii but that doesn't mean the Wii couldn't get Final Fantasy XIV (or a remake/spinnoff of a previous final fantasy game).

I'm fairly certain that most of Square Enix's board is quite terrified right now because their combined projects on the PS3 are probably the most expenisve thing they have ever produced; even surpassing Final Fantasy: The Spirits within. If the trend continues of PS3 games selling 1/4 to 1/3 what their PS2 equilivalent games did, Square Enix is in a position where they will likely lose (a lot) of money on these PS3 projects which could put them in a similar position as when Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was released (nearly bankrupt).


Regarding your second paragraph how can u seriously even suggest that development costs for a couple of ps3 games compares to the Spirits within movie. The losses alone for that movie were in excess of $120 million dollars. Having said that I will happily rescind my statement if you provide sources which support your claim

 

 


Well (currently) there are 3 games that have been confirmed to be released for the PS3 (Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, and The Last Remnant) and there are several rumored games ... It is also well know that a PS3 game can cost between $20 and $40 Million to develop, and if a company decided to go a little crazy it could surpass that; if you have 6 games in development with an average budget of $30 Million you have a fortune invested in the PS3.


So if SE has 3 games in developement for PS3, and they seem to be a lot more expensive then the average PS3 game, we can say they have for about $100 million in development cost.

Let's say they make $20,- profit on each game.

Those 3 games have to sell 5 million games combined to break even. That's seems pretty doable to me considering one of those is FF13.


I don't want to get into a long argumet about this, but they have three announced games and it is highly likely that they have 2 or 3 unnannounced games as well. On top of that the three best selling PS3 games (Motorstorm, Resistance, and Assassin's Creed) combined have sold (approximately) 6.5 Million copies which would (probably) be just enough to produce enough profit to justify the development.

I'm not saying Square Enix is in trouble, I'm saying they're probably somewhat worried because they have banked so heavily on the success of the PS3 (and PSP); not only do they have to break even, they have to provide enough of a return on investment to cover future development costs and have a healthy profit to show investors.



Despite all negatives about developing top tier games for the PS3 and the costs associated with it, i don't think that SE has much to worry about if we're talking about getting their money back. The Final Fantasy series, although evolving in the wrong direction imo, is the second or third most successful game series of all time, the game will sell in the end, at a number greater than 4 million units, no less.

True, that we have seen a continueing decline in sales ever since FF7 (10 million copies) with FF10 selling some 8 million and FF12 5,5 million units, but i somehow get the feeling that This game might have a higher attach rate, if only for the reason that it'll be one of the few must haves up to the game's release.



Deep into the darkness pearing

Long i stood there

Wondering

Fearing

Doubting. 

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Wada needs to stop flip-flopping. Or we need stop taking corporate jargon seriously.

Oh and [fanboy] Make a New Super Mario RPG plz [/fanboy]



There is no such thing as a console war. This is the first step to game design.

Jetlogs said:
I think it would be a scary idea if another RPG developer suddenly becomes a breakout success on the Wii, replacing the role of SE.

 Namco might be willing to play that role.  I prefer their rpg's anyways so I can only hope. 



Smash Bros: 2363-5325-6342 

Well for SE making these 3 big games i know that i will be buying all 3 of them as i love SE made games! I also have numerous friends that are waiting to buy a PS3 when the said games are released and i'm sure a lot of other people are on the same boat!

SE know that FFXIII will be a system seller (especially in Japan) so the size of the user-base won't be a problem since by that time it should be 2x the size it is now and also will get larger on the release of these games :D



HappySqurriel said:
BengaBenga said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
HappySqurriel said:
Branko2166 said:
I think to be fair there is no chance Square will release FFXIII on the wii as they take the approach of improving their main series FF games in terms of scope and graphics. It is possible however that on the next Nintendo console Square may consider moving to Nintendo but only if Nintendo provides them with a platform which can improve on FFXIII. Also Nintendo will likely need to establish a dominant market share ~70% by the end of this generation.

Square-Enix are not the graphics whores their fans make them out to be, if they were they wouldn't have focused on the Playstation or PS2 and the Nintendo DS wouldn't be seeing so much support today. Certainly, it is unlikely that the Wii will see Final Fantasy XIII because it is (probably) too far along in development to include the Wii but that doesn't mean the Wii couldn't get Final Fantasy XIV (or a remake/spinnoff of a previous final fantasy game).

I'm fairly certain that most of Square Enix's board is quite terrified right now because their combined projects on the PS3 are probably the most expenisve thing they have ever produced; even surpassing Final Fantasy: The Spirits within. If the trend continues of PS3 games selling 1/4 to 1/3 what their PS2 equilivalent games did, Square Enix is in a position where they will likely lose (a lot) of money on these PS3 projects which could put them in a similar position as when Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was released (nearly bankrupt).


Regarding your second paragraph how can u seriously even suggest that development costs for a couple of ps3 games compares to the Spirits within movie. The losses alone for that movie were in excess of $120 million dollars. Having said that I will happily rescind my statement if you provide sources which support your claim

 

 


Well (currently) there are 3 games that have been confirmed to be released for the PS3 (Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII, and The Last Remnant) and there are several rumored games ... It is also well know that a PS3 game can cost between $20 and $40 Million to develop, and if a company decided to go a little crazy it could surpass that; if you have 6 games in development with an average budget of $30 Million you have a fortune invested in the PS3.


So if SE has 3 games in developement for PS3, and they seem to be a lot more expensive then the average PS3 game, we can say they have for about $100 million in development cost.

Let's say they make $20,- profit on each game.

Those 3 games have to sell 5 million games combined to break even. That's seems pretty doable to me considering one of those is FF13.


I don't want to get into a long argumet about this, but they have three announced games and it is highly likely that they have 2 or 3 unnannounced games as well. On top of that the three best selling PS3 games (Motorstorm, Resistance, and Assassin's Creed) combined have sold (approximately) 6.5 Million copies which would (probably) be just enough to produce enough profit to justify the development.

I'm not saying Square Enix is in trouble, I'm saying they're probably somewhat worried because they have banked so heavily on the success of the PS3 (and PSP); not only do they have to break even, they have to provide enough of a return on investment to cover future development costs and have a healthy profit to show investors.


Yeah you're absolutely right about that. Shareholders aren't going to be very happy about the profits (but Sony own a big part I think) and since FF13 is by far their biggest projects owners expect decent profits. Konami has the same problem with MGS4, these are the games that should provide the biggest return on investment, but they probably will end up around break even point. This means less money for new projects.



So euhm if S-E believed in the best gfx for there final fantasy series why did they not do it on gamecube.
Some of you people really....