butcherknife said: non-gravity said: Mummelmann said: Truly shocking and surprising news. Well, at least the papacy signed the fact that the earth was round in the 1990's so we still have that... The Vatican accepted that the earth was round before Galileo was born. Galileo was a giant arrogant dick in expressing his views which is why at a certain point the church had to go after him. He embraced the Copernican model which wasn't exactly right and refuted Kepler's ellipses. As non-gravity said, the argument wasnt about the round earth...it as about whether or not the earth traveled around the sun or vice versa. The church said the earth was the center (supported by scripture), Galileo said the sun was the center (supported by scientific observation). Galileo was put under house arrest for promoting the FACT that the earth went around the sun. Doesnt matter how much of dick he was...you shouldnt be put under house arrest for being a dick...he wasnt he was put under house arrest for being a dick...he was put under house arrest for disobeying the church and promoting the FACT that the earth goes around the sun which was heresy to the church. Non-gravity can you provide examples of how Galileo was a "dick"..what exactly did he do that makes you describe him as adick, and why does being a dick justify house arrest for life? You also know that the church has since more-or-less apologized for what happened to Galleo, right?

Actually that's incorrect.

That the earth was at the center was also supproted by Scientifc observation.

There was the Tychonian Model.  Which at the time actually had superior science to Galleo's model. (Though was later proven wrong with the ivention of newer math and modern techhnology.... well after galeo died."

Galleo's big arguement agianst the Tychonian model was that the tides happen once a day and is created by the roating of the earth around the sun.

This of course was problematic because the tides happened twice per day, he argued that this happened in the meditarianian because of how small the sea was and that surely in the ocean the tides were once a year.

Most scientists arguements against Galleo's model was that if he was true we would be able to obsvere stellar paralax.  

Which we couldn't.  At the time.  Stellar Paralax wasn't proven during math until much later.  (Like the 1740 something.)

The actual math for both systems was equally valid, outside the fact that galleo's claims were unobservable... and the things he did use to support his conclusion were wrong.

Galleo was a dick, because in his book he represented the Pope as someone named Simpleton and used a strawman arguement while completely ignoring the Tychonian model as if it didn't exist.  (Even though it did, and was more or less the scientific consensus at the time.)

If science had not progressed passed Galleo's time, and was based soley on the facts.  You'd take the Tychonian system over the Copernican system any day of the week.  In fact, a majority of scientists only accepted it over the tychonian model once it adopted a number of the Tychonian models observations. (Which were true, that the Coeprnican model had wrong.)

It wasn't until the 18th century that it was gotten rid of all together.

Truth is, Galleo tried to rush and push what he thought was the right science (which it was), based on faulty research and bad assumptions.

Essentially and ironically he moved nearly completely based on feelings and belief... and is only remembered so greatly today specifically because of what the church did to him.

Had they left him alone, he would of been held up as a cautionary tale about how even when you know your right, you should do good science, because otherwise it bites you in the ass.

About couple of billion people.

What else is he suppose to say?  He is a RELIGIOUS leader.  Nothing new here.  It would be news if he said the opposite.  It's like an atheist saying, "there is no God".

Yeah, I'd actually argue that banning gay marriage could be a blow to freedom of religion.  As there are certain religious groups that want to be able to marry gay people.

Oh, and for a fun graph.... 

"Although we feel that Christian scripture is opposed to same-sex unions, we accept that the church has no power over the state and it is the duty of each individual Christian to find his or her own path to salvation, if they so wish."

Because that's kind of what the Bible tells him to do. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and all that.

non-gravity said: butcherknife said: non-gravity said: Mummelmann said: Truly shocking and surprising news. Well, at least the papacy signed the fact that the earth was round in the 1990's so we still have that... The Vatican accepted that the earth was round before Galileo was born. Galileo was a giant arrogant dick in expressing his views which is why at a certain point the church had to go after him. He embraced the Copernican model which wasn't exactly right and refuted Kepler's ellipses. As non-gravity said, the argument wasnt about the round earth...it as about whether or not the earth traveled around the sun or vice versa. The church said the earth was the center (supported by scripture), Galileo said the sun was the center (supported by scientific observation). Galileo was put under house arrest for promoting the FACT that the earth went around the sun. Doesnt matter how much of dick he was...you shouldnt be put under house arrest for being a dick...he wasnt he was put under house arrest for being a dick...he was put under house arrest for disobeying the church and promoting the FACT that the earth goes around the sun which was heresy to the church. Non-gravity can you provide examples of how Galileo was a "dick"..what exactly did he do that makes you describe him as adick, and why does being a dick justify house arrest for life? You also know that the church has since more-or-less apologized for what happened to Galleo, right? Galileo could not tolerate other opinions than his own and went into countless arguements with everyone destroying the other person's arguements and making fun of them. This got him a lot of enemies. In his Dialogue he defended the Copernican system by again destroying and making fun of the character Simplicio who was defending Vatican views. The Pope took this as a personal insult, to the church and Holy scripture. Writing about the Copernican or Kepler system was all fine as long as you took it as a mathematical hypothesis. The Jesuit order at this time had almost arrived at the Tychonic system where Mercury and Venus turn around the Sun and the Sun turns around the Earth with the Earth in the center of the Earth, and many among the order even were Copernicans. This is what Arthur Koestler's The Sleepwalkers tells me.

So he made fun of people...big deal...that doesnt mean that "the church had to go after him". Making fun of people does not mean you should be put under house arrest for life. In this case, Galileo may have made fun of poeple and may have been a dick...but the biggest dick is the Catholic church for putting him under house arrest for life. And the church has since recognized that they were the biggest dick (by a very large margin) in regards to this matter.

Im hoping that they stop gay marriage in US aswell as other countries.

butcherknife said: non-gravity said: butcherknife said: non-gravity said: Mummelmann said: Truly shocking and surprising news. Well, at least the papacy signed the fact that the earth was round in the 1990's so we still have that... The Vatican accepted that the earth was round before Galileo was born. Galileo was a giant arrogant dick in expressing his views which is why at a certain point the church had to go after him. He embraced the Copernican model which wasn't exactly right and refuted Kepler's ellipses. As non-gravity said, the argument wasnt about the round earth...it as about whether or not the earth traveled around the sun or vice versa. The church said the earth was the center (supported by scripture), Galileo said the sun was the center (supported by scientific observation). Galileo was put under house arrest for promoting the FACT that the earth went around the sun. Doesnt matter how much of dick he was...you shouldnt be put under house arrest for being a dick...he wasnt he was put under house arrest for being a dick...he was put under house arrest for disobeying the church and promoting the FACT that the earth goes around the sun which was heresy to the church. Non-gravity can you provide examples of how Galileo was a "dick"..what exactly did he do that makes you describe him as adick, and why does being a dick justify house arrest for life? You also know that the church has since more-or-less apologized for what happened to Galleo, right? Galileo could not tolerate other opinions than his own and went into countless arguements with everyone destroying the other person's arguements and making fun of them. This got him a lot of enemies. In his Dialogue he defended the Copernican system by again destroying and making fun of the character Simplicio who was defending Vatican views. The Pope took this as a personal insult, to the church and Holy scripture. Writing about the Copernican or Kepler system was all fine as long as you took it as a mathematical hypothesis. The Jesuit order at this time had almost arrived at the Tychonic system where Mercury and Venus turn around the Sun and the Sun turns around the Earth with the Earth in the center of the Earth, and many among the order even were Copernicans. This is what Arthur Koestler's The Sleepwalkers tells me. So he made fun of people...big deal...that doesnt mean that "the church had to go after him". Making fun of people does not mean you should be put under house arrest for life. In this case, Galileo may have made fun of poeple and may have been a dick...but the biggest dick is the Catholic church for putting him under house arrest for life. And the church has since recognized that they were the biggest dick (by a very large margin) in regards to this matter.

The church was very very mild compared to some present day regimes.

And people wonder why the Church is shedding so many of their followers, their intolerance does them more harm than good.

Sooner or later everyone will know someone or be affected by someone who is homosexual, it gets harder and harder to agree with that gospel knowing how our friends and family members are being delineated.

No, what is currently happening is like an atheist saying "there is a God". Jesus taught acceptance and love, not judgement and bigotry. Even the old testament (not the teachings of Christ anyway) rarely did anything to denounce homosexuality and when it did, it referred to it as unclean while also referring to men with long hair as unclean (just like Jesus) while also condemning women who wear pants, the consumption of lobster, interbreeding of different animals and finally, wearing blended fabrics (no underwear with elastic straps). The Pope is as far from the teachings of Jesus as possible without people actually figuring out what is happening.

Looks like you'll have to hope so for the rest of your life then, 'cause it ain't gonna happen