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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Editorial: Zelda has been getting worse since the NES

Ocarina of Time says lulz wut?



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I definitely feel twilight princess was a weak effort, and wind waker was tedious at points. I haven't played skyward sword to make a claim on that yet- but I feel that the series is not as strong as it used to be. And this guy definitely brings up a few good points about it.



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

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JWeinCom said:

I read about half of that ridiculousness. The author seems to have a deficiency common with many gamers, wherein a person feels that every game must cater to their whims and tastes. Perhaps the author would like a ridiculously challenging game like Zelda II. Many people would not. Perhaps he would like to bomb every random wall in a 3D space. 99.99% of people would not.

Really, the author has to decide whether or not the series is right for them. If he wants to play Dark Souls, than he should just play Dark Souls. If that's the experience he's looking for, he has it right there. But the suggestion that Nintendo's view of what Zelda should be is wrong and that it needs to be more like his view is asinine and egotistical. I hate to harp on this, but the suggestion that marking bombable walls is a bad thing for the series shows how laughable out of touch with the average gamer that the author is.

I dislike Skyrim alot. I hate the lack of a strong central plot, I don't enjoy the useless breadth of the world map, and I don't enjoy the tedium of the level up system. On the contrary I loved Skyward Sword. Yet, that doesn't mean I think Bethesda should make Skyrim more like Skyward Sword. Skyrim doesn't need to meet my personal tastes any more than Zelda needs to meet the author's.

You're new here, aren't you?  That kind of mature, balanced posting is not something I'm used to here.  Welcome!



TheMythmaker said:

I have to quibble with you on...pretty much everything.
First, removing the story. As an experiment, maybe, but as an actual direction for an adventure series to take? Ludicrous.
The removal of the story removes the ability of the game to TELL a story. It removes a sense of forward movement that a plot gives an adventure. Sure, the Original Zelda got away with minimal story, but that was due to its scale. What small plot was there (Find Triforce, beat Ganon), was acceptable because, truthfully, the scale of the game was small.

Secondly, by removing any structure to the game, you remove the context of the game. What are you playing for? To get stronger so you can beat stronger enemies? To what end?

The kind of game you're suggesting will never be made because gaming has progressed past that. Simple mechanics work for simple games, but as environments get larger and games get longer, they stretch too thin to be fun.


In short, you want a concept, not an actual game.

I can't comment on Zelda, but I do want to say... If you do this, you get Minecraft. There's no story, the only real goal is to beat the End, and you can basically do whatever the heck you want. And what happened was people took the game and made a whole ton of stories/games/whatever for other people to try. Minecraft is what you make of it. I realize that this isn't an entirely accurate comparison, but I think it shows that those kinds of games can exist and do well.



RolStoppable said:
NightDragon83 said:

The original Zelda got away with it, because the gameplay was engaging and addictive.

Secondly, yes. You play to get stronger, that's the original essence of Zelda. You play to get stronger to eventually beat up all bad guys and save Princess Zelda. You beat the game. You earn it.

Thirdly, Monster Hunter. The game is ridiculously bare bones for modern standards, but has been one of Japan's biggest hits in recent times. It's only played to get stronger and beat stronger enemies. The game has as much story as the original Zelda, only an even less interesting one.

Lastly, an actual game is one that you can win or lose. With losing not just being a remote possibility, but an ever present threat.

Your definition of video games is exceedingly narrow.  There are several games where death is impossible.  Notable games include Kirby's Epic Yarn, where you can absolutely not die.  Another example is Bioshock, one of the best received games of this generation, where death carries no penalty whatsoever.  We also have Braid, another awesome game, where any death can be reversed and carries no ramifications.

Difficulty does not necessarily make a game better or worse.



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Darth Tigris said:
JWeinCom said:

I read about half of that ridiculousness. The author seems to have a deficiency common with many gamers, wherein a person feels that every game must cater to their whims and tastes. Perhaps the author would like a ridiculously challenging game like Zelda II. Many people would not. Perhaps he would like to bomb every random wall in a 3D space. 99.99% of people would not.

Really, the author has to decide whether or not the series is right for them. If he wants to play Dark Souls, than he should just play Dark Souls. If that's the experience he's looking for, he has it right there. But the suggestion that Nintendo's view of what Zelda should be is wrong and that it needs to be more like his view is asinine and egotistical. I hate to harp on this, but the suggestion that marking bombable walls is a bad thing for the series shows how laughable out of touch with the average gamer that the author is.

I dislike Skyrim alot. I hate the lack of a strong central plot, I don't enjoy the useless breadth of the world map, and I don't enjoy the tedium of the level up system. On the contrary I loved Skyward Sword. Yet, that doesn't mean I think Bethesda should make Skyrim more like Skyward Sword. Skyrim doesn't need to meet my personal tastes any more than Zelda needs to meet the author's.

You're new here, aren't you?  That kind of mature, balanced posting is not something I'm used to here.  Welcome!


Oh boy.  I came here specifically in hopes of mature and balanced posting.  It'd be kind of a shame if this place was like, you know... every other gaming website.  Lol.

Oh and sorry about double posting.  Not sure how to multiquote or anything.



RolStoppable said:
JWeinCom said:

Your definition of video games is exceedingly narrow.  There are several games where death is impossible.  Notable games include Kirby's Epic Yarn, where you can absolutely not die.  Another example is Bioshock, one of the best received games of this generation, where death carries no penalty whatsoever.  We also have Braid, another awesome game, where any death can be reversed and carries no ramifications.

Difficulty does not necessarily make a game better or worse.

I was replying to a guy who was basically saying that the original Zelda wasn't an actual game while in reality it was far closer to being an actual game than many (or most) modern games are.


I don't think he said that it wasn't an actual game, just that it was too simplistic to replicate in this day and age.  And Monster Hunter's story is more complex, based on what I've played.

Be that as it may, I'm pretty confused by what you mean by an actual game as opposed to a ummm not actual game.



I've been trying to figure out what it is about the Zelda series that has completely turned me off and this guy has nailed it. Besides Majora's Mask the games have been going generally down hill. I miss the adventure.



This is only my opinion.

Where is the too long didn't read version?

Anyway, I didn't read it. And this guy seriously needs to do more with his life if he's dreaming about games and he's in his 30's. And besides, he was a kid when it came out. Of course it's gonna seem more awesome back then. Fact the matter is, this guy is full of shit.



Snesboy said:
Where is the too long didn't read version?

Anyway, I didn't read it. And this guy seriously needs to do more with his life if he's dreaming about games and he's in his 30's. And besides, he was a kid when it came out. Of course it's gonna seem more awesome back then. Fact the matter is, this guy is full of shit.


TL:DR Version

Zelda isn't exactly what I want it to be and is therefore an awful game.