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Forums - Gaming - Ninja Theory on DMC reboot: "we're not pretending we're Japanese, or apologising for it"

SnakeDrake said:
I imagine if they did God of War

"We in the West tend to be more functional adding things that have meaning and being able to explain that meaning. Why does Kratos have no hair? I want to make a little story around that and explain it. And so on for the rest of his design choices."

Isn't that more or less what they did?  I mean, not the white hear, but Kratos has a very distinct look... and there is a very distinc reason behind it.



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Rainbird said:
TruckOSaurus said:
Rainbird said:

All the more reason to go in with an open mind and see what happens. And Dante being the son of a demon and human doesn't explain why he has white hair unless it's explicitly used as a reason for it.

I'm not saying DmC is going to be the best thing ever or even a good game at all. I just think it's silly to think that explaining some characteristic can't lead to a good game. There could be a myriad of reasons for why Dante's hair is the way it is, and Ninja Theory is trying to show players the adventure which leads to it. For all we know, it's going to be one hell of a ride.

Explaining that characteristic doesn't automatically make the plot bad but considering that Virgil (Dante's twin brother) also has white hair, they'll gonna have to get creative to find a way that both brothers ended up changing hair color during their adult life.

In any case, Dante's hair color isn't my main problem here. It's that what they discard as being "Japanese" is the whole reason I love the franchise. Like Zim said, they should have just made a new IP.

There's no reason to blame Ninja Theory for DmC then, Capcom were the ones who wanted a new take on Devil May Cry after all.

Yeah I guess it's a "don't shoot the messenger" type of thing. I'll shift my blame on Capcom instead!



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Rainbird said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

facepalm aaaaaaaaargh I can't believe I forgot that..I mixed that up with getting ash from Prometheus to gain the titan powers! 'hides head in shame'

Now your argument makes more sense.


lol yeah I was like why would that explain it hahahah (these are side effects of not having a GOW to play in a long time :( )



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Rainbird said:

There's no reason to blame Ninja Theory for DmC then, Capcom were the ones who wanted a new take on Devil May Cry after all.


Capcom asked them to make the game, however I'm gonna take a wild guess that they didn't ask NT to be disrespectful to the series and the fans. Capcom are at fault for wanting to change the series for no discernable reason instead of making a new IP. However NT are at fault of just being rude, disrespectful and I think really quite insulting. 

I still haven't been able to figure out exactly why Capcom decided to shift it over to a Western developer. DMC4 is the second best selling game in the series. Not including digital copies and it also included a PC releae close to the console releases. Which DMC1 didn't have. So DMC4 was at 1.4m on PS3 and 1.25m on 360 for a 2.65m total . NT made.... Kung Fu Chaos at 280k sales, HS at 1.55m and Enslaved at 780k (this was released after the deal however). 

So Capcom had the series at very nearly an all time high and decided to shift development over to a team who have a pretty rough track record with sales. Also a team who made games that on average received a lower review score than DMC4. So a team who were making less well received games and selling less and Capcom decide to switch development to them....... why?!

The only logical reason I can come up with is simply that Capcom saw that God Of War was outperforming Japanese style hack and slash games and decided to switch to a western team. Or maybe they saw HS quite good performance on just PS3 and thought maybe they could do better with the DmC branding and across two platforms. 

Either way it seems like a bad decision.



Turkish says and I'm allowed to quote that: Uncharted 3 and God Of War 3 look better than Unreal Engine 4 games will or the tech demo does. Also the Naughty Dog PS3 ENGINE PLAYS better than the UE4 ENGINE.

Aiddon said:
hey, NT, wanna know WHY Dante has white hair? He was BORN that way. There's no story behind it, it's just genetic. Although, in Japanese fiction it tends to be a trait to explain demonic or divine lineage. Still. not that goddamned important, ya pretentious, whiny TWATS.

God, Antoniades and Jones piss me off. They seem to aggressively despise anything remotely Japanese/Asian and tout the West like it's somehow vastly superior. Hate to break it to ya guys, but your constant insults against the original games and against the fanbase reveal you as nothing more than a bunch of insecure, thin-skinned (and even xenophobic) babies who can't take criticism. NT is nothing but a hack studio that has made only mediocre games in order to cram their beloved (but painfully average) stories down the the throats of players. This game is going to bomb and when it does I fully expect NT to throw another tantrum ala when Heavenly Sword and Enslaved failed to meet expectations.

PS. The mention of Inafune also helps me remember what an asshole he was before he left the company. Self-xenophobic twat.


This is the exact word that came to mind when I saw the image in the OP.



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Zim said:
Rainbird said:

There's no reason to blame Ninja Theory for DmC then, Capcom were the ones who wanted a new take on Devil May Cry after all.


Capcom asked them to make the game, however I'm gonna take a wild guess that they didn't ask NT to be disrespectful to the series and the fans. Capcom are at fault for wanting to change the series for no discernable reason instead of making a new IP. However NT are at fault of just being rude, disrespectful and I think really quite insulting. 

I still haven't been able to figure out exactly why Capcom decided to shift it over to a Western developer. DMC4 is the second best selling game in the series. Not including digital copies and it also included a PC releae close to the console releases. Which DMC1 didn't have. So DMC4 was at 1.4m on PS3 and 1.25m on 360 for a 2.65m total . NT made.... Kung Fu Chaos at 280k sales, HS at 1.55m and Enslaved at 780k (this was released after the deal however). 

So Capcom had the series at very nearly an all time high and decided to shift development over to a team who have a pretty rough track record with sales. Also a team who made games that on average received a lower review score than DMC4. So a team who were making less well received games and selling less and Capcom decide to switch development to them....... why?!

The only logical reason I can come up with is simply that Capcom saw that God Of War was outperforming Japanese style hack and slash games and decided to switch to a western team. Or maybe they saw HS quite good performance on just PS3 and thought maybe they could do better with the DmC branding and across two platforms. 

Either way it seems like a bad decision.

My personal theory is that it's because Inafune was having a big, sulky midlife crisis, basically bashing all Japanese gaming (for no reason) while putting Western gaming on a pedestal it never earned and then he just decided to put NT on the case because they were available. They're just a leftover from when Inafune was being a bitter, self-loathing old man at CAPCOM and his sour, immature attitude seems to have rubbed off on them. Maybe if NT wasn't collectively exposing themselves as narcissists who seem to be ignorant of the popularity of Dante then we might have given them the benefit of the doubt. Insted, they acted like children and their already shaky reputation is becoming even more loathsome. They're finished and so is this game.



Zim said:
Rainbird said:

There's no reason to blame Ninja Theory for DmC then, Capcom were the ones who wanted a new take on Devil May Cry after all.

Capcom asked them to make the game, however I'm gonna take a wild guess that they didn't ask NT to be disrespectful to the series and the fans. Capcom are at fault for wanting to change the series for no discernable reason instead of making a new IP. However NT are at fault of just being rude, disrespectful and I think really quite insulting. 

I still haven't been able to figure out exactly why Capcom decided to shift it over to a Western developer. DMC4 is the second best selling game in the series. Not including digital copies and it also included a PC releae close to the console releases. Which DMC1 didn't have. So DMC4 was at 1.4m on PS3 and 1.25m on 360 for a 2.65m total . NT made.... Kung Fu Chaos at 280k sales, HS at 1.55m and Enslaved at 780k (this was released after the deal however). 

So Capcom had the series at very nearly an all time high and decided to shift development over to a team who have a pretty rough track record with sales. Also a team who made games that on average received a lower review score than DMC4. So a team who were making less well received games and selling less and Capcom decide to switch development to them....... why?!

The only logical reason I can come up with is simply that Capcom saw that God Of War was outperforming Japanese style hack and slash games and decided to switch to a western team. Or maybe they saw HS quite good performance on just PS3 and thought maybe they could do better with the DmC branding and across two platforms. 

Either way it seems like a bad decision.

@ bolded

http://www.1up.com/news/capcom-planned-controversy-dmc-dante

"The original concepts that came back for Dante were actually extremely close to the Dante everyone knows and loves," Svensson said. "The feedback that came back from [Keiji] Inafune and [Hideaki] Itsuno was, 'No guys, this needs to be completely different, we need you to go much further and be much more creative.' And literally dozens of potential iterations later became what we as a team felt comfortable and actually happy with."

Make of that what you will.



Rainbird said:

@ bolded

http://www.1up.com/news/capcom-planned-controversy-dmc-dante

"The original concepts that came back for Dante were actually extremely close to the Dante everyone knows and loves," Svensson said. "The feedback that came back from [Keiji] Inafune and [Hideaki] Itsuno was, 'No guys, this needs to be completely different, we need you to go much further and be much more creative.' And literally dozens of potential iterations later became what we as a team felt comfortable and actually happy with."

Make of that what you will.

Right Capcom told them to make it different. They didn't tell them to say things such as '' But, you know, what was cool 12 years ago - I think that was when the first game came out - isn't cool anymore'' 

So yea being told to make the game different and saying in an interview that you think the games and dante are outdated and uncool are very differet things in my opinion. So if Capcom decide to go back to the old style? Hey! NT said that is uncool and outdated!

Oh as an added bonus this review is from 2010.... meaning that 12 years ago the PS2 wasn't even released. So Ninja Theory know the franchise so well that they think it started on the original playstation..... clearly they care a lot.  For anyone interested Devil May Cry was released late 2001 and the interview is from late 2010, meaning it was 9 years ago. So only 3 years and a console generation out fom ninja theory there. 

Oh and about bayonetta he says ''  'Do I think it's cool?' No, not at all. I think it's caricatured and over-the-top and very 'Japanesey,' and for that absurd style it does that really well, but that's not what I want."

So there we have it Devil May Cry is outdated and uncool, while Bayonetta is too 'Japanesey'. I still can't quite believe a grown man would use the word Japanesey.

 '' Ninja Theory creative director Tameem Antoniades, who was playing and explaining how the game works along with other staff members, really wanted to remark how Dante's really upset with the world: he doesn't have a job, and he feels like he has no future. Just like most angsty teenagers nowadays. '' The half demon and *sigh* now half angel Dante with supernatural powers is angsty because he doesn't have a job.

I don't know what this new game is, however the characters, story, gameplay and tone of the game are all different. It is Devil May Cry in name only.

I don't know what your favourite games are. But think how you would feel if a new studio took one of them over, told you that the games were outdated and uncool and then presented something totally different and told you it was better. All the while making it clear they didn't even know the old games. 



Turkish says and I'm allowed to quote that: Uncharted 3 and God Of War 3 look better than Unreal Engine 4 games will or the tech demo does. Also the Naughty Dog PS3 ENGINE PLAYS better than the UE4 ENGINE.

Zim said:

I don't know what your favourite games are. But think how you would feel if a new studio took one of them over, told you that the games were outdated and uncool and then presented something totally different and told you it was better. All the while making it clear they didn't even know the old games. 

Just to be perfectly clear here, I never defended Ninja Theory's comments about the old Devil May Cry games. I've defended Ninja Theory against unfair accusations, like how telling the story behind Dante's hair color is stupid and how Capcom were the ones who pushed for a new kind of Devil May Cry and hired Ninja Theory to do the job.

I can fully understand why you'd be pissed at their comments, but there's really no need to take it out on me.



Rainbird said:
Zim said:

I don't know what your favourite games are. But think how you would feel if a new studio took one of them over, told you that the games were outdated and uncool and then presented something totally different and told you it was better. All the while making it clear they didn't even know the old games. 

Just to be perfectly clear here, I never defended Ninja Theory's comments about the old Devil May Cry games. I've defended Ninja Theory against unfair accusations, like how telling the story behind Dante's hair color is stupid and how Capcom were the ones who pushed for a new kind of Devil May Cry and hired Ninja Theory to do the job.

I can fully understand why you'd be pissed at their comments, but there's really no need to take it out on me.

Their comments express the personal opinions of one person. they dont actully offend anyone.

and is what their saying untrue??

i look at DMC4 Dante and i cringe at what Capcom did with him. they westernised his design, the red cowboy boots look ridiculous. and its not cool at all. i was extremely unhappy with the westernised design from DMC4. i'm happy they've given NT a chance to do something more interesting, because the dialogue and the story in that game were borderline nauseating.

the Bayonetta comment... this is actully true, Bayonetta is Japanese. her clothes come off all the time in the game. this female objectification is something you tend to find in a Japanese game. it is ridiculous.

its depressing that developers cant make reasonable comments about things. Tameen hasnt grossly offended those games or fans, he actully said why he dosent like it. and if you look at what he said its not without truth. fans are simply looking for new ways to discredit a developer who actully havent done anything wrong.

and we dont know if Hideki Itsuno or the team at Capcom want to make these games anymore. they made 3 DMC games, they might not want to do it anymore. which is why Itsuno is also directing Dragon's Dogma. it might be because he wants to do something different with his career.

besides i look at every game Capcom have made this console generation, and i dont see DMC5 being anything special after their performance this generation.