No need to take my posts so seriously, they're just predictions, no need for the belittling comment either.

At least my "reasoning" is based on something we already know, the fact that they are releasing their console earlier and the actions and reputations of the big three in THIS generation as well as with the 3DS. I don't care if Nintendo are supposedly working with EA to improve their online, or if the Wii U is going to have scaled down hardware similar to the PS4 and Xbox 720 for easy ports, if that's even accurate or relevant. All I know is that Nintendo are going to have a hard time appealing to the hardcore market after the PS4 and Xbox 720 release with presumably better hardware, a much better reputation and much stronger hardcore 1st party titles.

The most important factor for the PS4 is not raw power alone, but how easy it is to take advantage of the Hardware.

- First party studios make PS3 look clearly like a more powerful hardware then the 360, the problem is, 3rd party don´t have the time (time is money) to fully optimize the game for every console.

They need to make the machine easier for developers to take advantage of 99% of the hardware with ease, so that first party (or any 3rd party that wants to fully take advantage of the hardware) can go 1 step further and continue to separate themselves with first party studios that fully utilize the machine pushing 3rd party to work harder with the hardware in hand.

The last point I want to make, this idea that the next gen will not be a huge step ahead in AI/graphics/whatever you are underestimating developing games for closed systems with current CPUs and specially GPUs, IMO

Oh I see you just can't read ok let me copy and paste my poste for you to read again

Wii U = Dreamcast

X720 = GC

PS4 = Xbox

where did I say a DC to PS3 leap? Learn to read before insulting people geeze 

Also I didn't say 4k native I said that sony might try and push their upcoming 4k TVs by offering 4k output via upscaling just like current consoles do "1080p" again read stuff more carefully.

LOL. All my points were accurate and relevant but if you can't counter them, that's okay.

All I know is MS will have a hard appealing to the core market after the PS3 releases with presumably better hardware, a much better reputation and stronger hardcore first party titles.

History has shown us that you don't need to have the strongest hardware to appeal to the core market. You just need to offer them the games and services they are looking for.

Also, notice I am talking about core gamers and not going on about 'hardcores' like you.

Here is the exact quote:

" Also do you really think that NaughtyDog would be scared of moving to the next generation if was only a Dreamcast to PS3 size leap?"

It was bolded in my previous post. 

Saying PC tech is your area of expertise and not console tech is an insult? I made sure to word it in a way that wasn't insulting so I don't know how you were offended.

Ah that was a typo it was meant to be PS2

Also could you provide your sources for the Wii U being more than twice as powerful as the 360 or are you just speculating?

GREAT article for getting hits and sparking fanboy debates. That's about the only thing it's useful for.

Sony is in absolutely NO position to do with the PS4 what they tried to do with the PS3. Stockholders just won't have it (especially if PSVita sales don't seriously improve). And MS has finally tasted the fruit of profitability from their gaming endeavors and are unlikely to bet the farm just to be the most powerful device (heck, vocal stockholders felt they should drop the division just because it wasn't as profitable as other divisions). No, I expect both to be more relatively conservative this time around. There is no HD visual jump this time around. Graphics won't wow us the same way. Next gen will have to be something ... different to wow us.

I see. I suspected as much.

Well, like I said, a couple of reliable guys who have had access to the  dev kits and have given hints and a bit of info in the GAF Wii-U speculation thread about eDRAM, memory range that was in the devkits and bit of info on the CPU like there being a master core . Too much to dig through to link to but this is their speculation on how the console could end up.

CPU
Tri-core (POWER7-based cores) @ 3+Ghz
3MB L2 cache (split 1.5MB:768KB:768KB; may  increase this before launch)

GPU
600-800Mhz
640-800 SPUs
( Nintendo may be trying for a 32nm GPU)

Memory
32MB of embedded 1T-SRAM-Q
1GB - 1.5GB of GDDR5 memory

The memory in the final system and how the custom-built GPU ends up will determine the size of the jump . 

Now I'd like to see your supposed specs for a PS4/720 launching in mid-to-late 2013. 

Edit: Well you're offline and I'm about to log out so I'll just leave this here:

I'm expecting 2-3 GB RAM and 6850/6950 GPU levels of performance from Sony and MS' next console.

Yea that sounds about what I know which means it's arround 2-3 times the X360 but with a 32MB frame buffer should be able to handle 1080p native without the performance loss like you get when you run over the 360s 10MB embedded framebuffer. 

Then there is the first highly sketchy  rumours of early dev kitts Xbox Next have specs of 

6 core IBM 

2GB DDR3

2GB GDDR5

Current dev kits have dual curent generation GPUs likely to simulate the GPU that AMD is still tapping out, they did this with the 360 as well where they had 2 x600s (and later a single x800) in dev kits until the Xenos was finalised. But this means that whatever GPU they are planning to use is more powerful than current single GPUs AMD make at the time and AMD make single GPUs that are more than 8x more powerful than the 360s GPU. 

And just like Nintendo they are still tweaking the hardware so you can see why I think that a Dreamcast to Gamecube (~2-3x) style leap would be very conservative for Wii U to Xbox Next/PS4. With an even bigger leap (up to 8x the GPU) is more than possible and that will mean Samaritan level tech (not at 60fps and with slightly toned down tessellation tho,) Early 360 dev kitts were far less powerful than final hardware (dual core CPU, x800 GPU, 256MB RAM). And the PS4 is said to be more powerful again.

The Xbox next rumour said 6 cores, 2 GB DDR3 and unknown V-RAM.

From what I've been told, 4GB would require 8 memory chips at minimum, and those are not going to be cheap memory chips. Furthermore they add to the complexity and cost of the motherboard and cooling system.

360 was originally meant to have 256 MB of memory but Epic convinced them to add another 256 MB which ended costing them a billion in losses. And I can't remember where I read this but it was said Sony was pushed to 512 MB because of MS adding more to their system.

I'm expecting 6850/6950 GPu levels of performance with 2 GB system RAM and 512MB-1GB V-RAM from 2013 consoles. So 2.5 - 3 GB in total.

I don't see  Sony and MS repeating this gen with big, hot and unreliable hardware and taking big losses.

MS is investing in kinect and broadening their appeal to not just core gamers but the more casual ones as well which plays well into their goal of becoming people's home entertainment center.

Sony has said that they don't plan to take huge losses with PS4.

I expect both to launch no higher than $399 and with those specs will put out games that are a huge jump over PS360 and blow the likes of BF3 out of the water.