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Forums - Sales Discussion - How much does a game need to sell to make a profit?

osamanobama said:
yo_john117 said:

It really depends on a multitude of things and there is no way to say what a game needs to sell to make a profit.

But anyways here's a chart with a average breakdown of where your money goes for a $60 game


i wonder what returns means.

so that means sony first party games get around $40 (yes they have to incure shipping costs, but they get that $4 still)

I was going to say I thought it meant people returning the game but then I remembered that you can't return opened games. 

Maybe returns mean retailers sending the game back to the publisher/developer.



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osamanobama said:
Slimebeast said:

War in the North looks fairly low budget for a HD game but the studio making it, Snowblind is relatively large at +80 members. So lets say 80 developers making it for 2-2.5 years. which gives roughly a $16-20 million dev cost. Add another $3-4 million for marketing and a few more millions for the LOTR license/royalties (these cost!) and on top of that a significant number of millions that the publisher Warner needs from each game to run its gaming division.

So all in all the game would need minimum $30 million from sales (yes a very rough estimate and I'm almost pulling these numbers from my ass) to cover all those costs, and since you get $25 per copy sold (low reviewed games like War in the North end up quite quickly in the bargain bin) it would need to sell at least 1.2 million copies to break even.

Now, how many copies has it actually sold so far? A million?

NO... just no.

that would be a bigger budget than Uncharted games have, and a much bigger budget than the Gears game (1st one especially).

having games in the $20 million budget range is well above average. thats a big budget game.

it is more that like LotR had a budget well below $10 million after marketing, etc.


War in the North certainly looks like a $10 million game but it is hard facts that Snowblind is a big studio with +80 members who worked on only this game for over 2 years (there just was a rumor who said layoffs were up to 80 people from Snowblind studios after they finished War in the North, so it sure must be a big studio). Also I didn't say total budget for it was $30 million. The budget in the traditional sense is more like $19-24 million, including marketing. (the $30 mill reflects total revenue that the game needs to truly break even. Warner needs money to keep publishing games and that LOTR license cost a huge amount of money to aquire).

Now to your Uncharted and Gears argument. First of all one has to realize that gaming is an unfair business. You can have a quality studio with huge talent like Naughty Dog and Epic who are able to make super hit games for average costs. The thing is that not all publishers have this luxury. For every Naughty Dog theres at least three studios like Snowblind, Realtime Worlds (Crackdown) and Ninja Theory (Enslaved) - big 100-member studios who are allowed to make $20 million budget games that get mediocre reviews and that seldom make any profit (it's all these games who explain why most publishers hardly make any profit).

Naughty Dog with Uncharted and Epic with Gears are huge exceptions.



the answer is none as game developers are paid - that's why piracy is of course our right as gamers...



kowenicki said:
well clearly, the answer has to be... it depends...


Very true. Depends on how much was spent making the game and marketing it. Then you have to factor in all the bills to be paid for the office, travel, salaries, retailers, coffee/food and anyone else who gets a cut of the sales. Once all the bills have been paid, whatever profits are left usually go to the publisher and developers depending on the contract that was signed. Most games now cost at least $3-$8 million minimum to make, so you literally have to double that before a real profit is make.



__________________________________________

'gaming till I'm gone'

100M more then it cost to make. if the game has sold 3 times 100m units and it cost $100m to make with advertisements then it's profit, but in the business world it's not that simple.

the division has to make more then the overhead cost.



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Sniper Ghost Warrior for PC/X360 costed 750k Euro
Witcher 1 was 5-6 milions
Witcher 2 including engine costs and all the preparations for console versions 7-8 milions
Bulltstorm was 20 milions $

So quality of game doesn't seem to be only factor in costs ;)



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

great graph john. in my last post i repeated myself twice. hell DOA an FF saved there respective companies. if a game can keep a company from sinking and make a sizeable profit then it has done its job.



do you think battlefield 3 made a profit? (i heard EA spent $100,000,000 marketing it)