Admittedly, I've completely bought in to VGchartz and it's methodology, and as a result, it's numbers. Perhaps this is my downfall, but when scanning other forums, (mainly the smashboards) it frustrates me to see people dis VGchartz for being "completely made up" or something of the sort.

Most if this is spawned from the fact that people just can't acknowledge that their opinion =/= the opinion of the rest of the world, but still!

This is from smash boards:

Quote: Originally Posted by EDreams VGChartz is worthless. The only good source is the data from the companies themselves, and you can easily find the sources for it on Wikipedia. You question VGchartz because you don't understand. Read their methodology page and everything will be clear. The site owner doesn't just pull numbers out of his ***, he has real sources and his numbers are generally within 10% of the NPD group, which is the most trusted source in the industry. The data from the companies themselves will almost always be skewed one way or another. What about those people who bought another 360 after the first one red-ringed? To the person who said the XB360 sold more than the Wii, this is true for America, but not the world. The Wii surpassed the 360 worldwide in late August/Early September. So if you can please do your best to stymie ignorance on the internet, that would be great. You can't find any of their sources on Wikipedia. Good try though It seems that if popular opinion doesn't match your own, you tend to reject it. Just because you think that Brawl will be the best game of all time does not mean it will outsell Halo 3, or vice-versa.

Today, 12:12 PM	#617
Chi's Finest vbmenu_register("postmenu_3660856", true); Smash Lord     Join Date: Dec 2005 Wii #: 2569 1448 9439 3996 Location: ChiTown Posts: 1,636	Quote: Originally Posted by cdude1034 You question VGchartz because you don't understand. Read their methodology page and everything will be clear. The site owner doesn't just pull numbers out of his ***, he has real sources and his numbers are generally within 10% of the NPD group, which is the most trusted source in the industry. The data from the companies themselves will almost always be skewed one way or another. What about those people who bought another 360 after the first one red-ringed? To the person who said the XB360 sold more than the Wii, this is true for America, but not the world. The Wii surpassed the 360 worldwide in late August/Early September. So if you can please do your best to stymie ignorance on the internet, that would be great. You can't find any of their sources on Wikipedia. Good try though It seems that if popular opinion doesn't match your own, you tend to reject it. Just because you think that Brawl will be the best game of all time does not mean it will outsell Halo 3, or vice-versa. Wow..... First of all, vgcharrtz is not accurate. They have Halo 3 selling 4.6 million at the end of the year. Microsoft Confirmed over a month ago that Halo 3 had sold over 5 million, so that is off by a lot. It's at about 7 or 8 million. He's off by nearly 100%. Secondly, wikipedia DOES give sources. Have you ever wondered what those little numbers are next to a bit of info? Those are a links that bring you to the source of that information, so you can check up on it yourself. Also, you don't even know how 360's work with red wring of death issues. MS has a continuos cycle of the same 360's being recycled. You send in your 360 to MS, which is covered by warranty by default for three years. When you send it in, you recieve a different 360 that has been competely fixed. Then another person sends theirs in, and gets yours after it is fixed. No one goes out and buys a new 360. Please don't try to correct people and seem all-knowing when you are in fact, very wrong. __________________ Last edited by Chi's Finest : Today at 12:15 PM.

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Today, 12:13 PM	#618
reu_1303 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3660859", true); Smash Child     Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: "I'm not going there to die. I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." Posts: 71	I don't think Brawl has a chance of outselling Halo. Although I do think it will be the best selling wii game __________________ Thanks sugarpoultry

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Today, 12:16 PM	#619
cdude1034 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3660873", true); Smash n00b   Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6	Quote: Originally Posted by Chi's Finest Wow..... First of all, vgcharrtz is not accurate. They have Halo 3 selling 4.6 million at the end of the year. Microsoft Confirmed over a month ago that Halo 3 had sold over 5 million, so that is off by a lot. It's at about 7 or 8 million. He's off by nearly 100%. Secondly, wikipedia DOES give sources. Have you ever wondered what those little numbers are next to a bit of info? Those are a links that bring you to the source of that information, so you can check up on it yourself. Please don't try to correct people and seem all-knowing when you are in fact, very wrong. Dude, you have no idea. Sold = shipped to retailers according to Microsoft Sold = sold to consumers according to VGchartz. It is very possible and in fact more than likely that they have 400,000 unsold copies sitting on shelves. You just don't know how it works. I forgive you.

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Today, 12:21 PM	#620
Chi's Finest vbmenu_register("postmenu_3660903", true); Smash Lord     Join Date: Dec 2005 Wii #: 2569 1448 9439 3996 Location: ChiTown Posts: 1,636	Quote: Originally Posted by cdude1034 Dude, you have no idea. Sold = shipped to retailers according to Microsoft Sold = sold to consumers according to VGchartz. It is very possible and in fact more than likely that they have 400,000 unsold copies sitting on shelves. You just don't know how it works. I forgive you. You're only making yourself look like an ***. You act as if everyone here who is not a complete Nintendo fanboy is screwing up the facts and there is no need to talk down on anyone because they don't agree with your narrow-minded views. There is a difference between units sold and units shipped. They report on units sold. You're just saying that MS is lying because they have a game that's sold more in 3 weeks than any non-bundled Wii game in over a year. "Oh noes, MS sold a game, so I'll say that they lye, because nothing can outsell a Wii game." I've proved you wrong on all of your points, all of which you acted as if you were sure on and correcting people, when you were in fact wrong. __________________

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Today, 12:27 PM

#621

cdude1034 vbmenu_register("postmenu_3660925", true); Smash n00b   Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6

Quote: Originally Posted by Chi's Finest You're only making yourself look like an ***. You act as if everyone here who is not a complete Nintendo fanboy is screwing up the facts and there is no need to talk down on anyone because they don't agree with your narrow-minded views. There is a difference between units sold and units shipped. They report on units sold. You're just saying that MS is lying because they have a game that's sold more in 3 weeks than any non-bundled Wii game in over a year. "Oh noes, MS sold a game, so I'll say that they lye, because nothing can outsell a Wii game." I've proved you wrong on all of your points, all of which you acted as if you were sure on and correcting people, when you were in fact wrong. What exactly did you prove again? I didn't say anybody is "screwing up the facts" I simply tried to correct some apparently common misconceptions. About Halo: I love Halo! I want it to do well, but my loyalty lies with the facts. If it sold 20 million units on launch day I'd be the first to congratulate it, and admit it was the fastest selling game of all time, but once again I guess my downfall is my commitment to the facts. Microsoft themselves acknowledges that Sold = shipped to retailers, Sony is the same way. There is no fanboyism here, although admittedly this is a site about Brawl, and is the reason why I'm here in the first place.

 Gah! Frustration. Any similar experiences?

I don't come across this anymore....but that's just because I stopped going to IGN/Gamespot message boards.

It should be noted, however, that when I was at Gamespot there was a poll on the tracking sites. You all know them. NexGenwars, Console Wars, and this one.

VGchartz won in a landslide and was considered the sales standard (outside of NPD).

See, the thing is though that some people are extremely adamant about these things, even when they're wrong. They cite things like Wikipedia, and even when the data is months old they apply it to the present.

A big part of the problem is that many people don't understand the difference between units sold to retail and units sold to consumers. They assume that companies will report the latter, when they report the former instead. For whatever reason, the people who bash VG Chartz for undertracking heavily don't seem to realize that no company is going to go to the trouble of tracking sales to consumers on their own when it's much easier (and more impressive) to report units sold to retailers.

Then too are the usual console-specific fans who refuse to believe that their favorite system is being outdone by another, and subsequently refuse to believe the numbers because they don't jive with what they want the numbers to be, but we find those sorts even here at VG Chartz...

I see it everywhere I go, n4g.com is the worst, the bash the hell out of VGChartz, not a Wii fan in site over there as well, as soon as Wii does great they bash VGChartz, but recently with the PS3 picking up steam on the 360 the attitude seems to change, most sites will spin things their way if according to VGChartz their console is doing well.

I need a reference showing that Microsoft's definition of sold = shipped to retailers that isn't VGChartz.

It always amazes me how people can become so determined to believe they're right that they'll ignore reality and accuse others of being wrong for stating the facts (or as close to them as possible). It just seems like the wrong way to go, as it's downright anti-intellectual and self-serving. I know we can't all be bastions of open-mindedness, but some of the closed-mindedness being displayed around console success and failure is truly mind-boggling... I suppose as long as we don't start seeing the Church of Sony or something equally fanatical pop up, we'll be alright, but still...

Many people are like the Bush administration on WMDs. They form an opinion and then look for facts to substanciate their position, and refuse to acknowledge facts that don't. This continues until the truth becomes overwhelming obvious (and a select few never accept it).

That goes for anything really, from the Earth being flat to Toronto having the greatest hockey team in the world (btw Toronto hasn't won since '67)

vg did not count the half a million PS3s sold in India, now did they ?

What are the sources behind the numbers, how many are there who are they.

I think you need to make a "VGChartz soldier" icon for people's sigs, for those who go around to different sites defending VGChartz.

You're right, it's going to be a never ending battle getting people to buy in to the methodology, especially if the figures don't match their perceptions of reality. This however, does not mean anyone should give up defending the site. I for one, will not.

I just thought I'd vent my frustrations in this thread.