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Forums - Sales Discussion - 2008 at Bruceongames

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


 Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

 How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before. 

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.) 



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. - Jason Lee, Mallrats.

http://theaveragejoe.sportsblognet.com/ - Mainly American Football, snippets of Basketball, European Football and Hockey. 

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Gnizmo said:
Have Nintendo EVER released a new version of a console (not just a die shrink, internal change, but an actual visible change like PS2->PS slim)?


Top loading NES, and a redesign of the SNES come to mind. Both of those came out a long time after the original console, and I wanna say one of them came out after the next gen of hardware was released. Since the SNES they have only done handheld redesigns though, and that is what has given them the stigma I think.


ah I was unaware of both these changes. I imagine the top loading NES was forced on them by the shoddy contacts of the original NES, however. SNES redesign I had no idea about, I have never seen one. I was pretty young at the time, and had no money of my own. My parents refused to buy me a gaming console (and they were only like $200 back then, imagine my shock when parents today spend $1000 on a console for their kids)

My other point still stands, however, Nintendo does not make major hardware changes to their consoles, and has not made a new revision for 2 generations now.

EDIT: oh, I see the original SNES and the NES2 never made it to PAL. No wonder I've never seen them before. Can I also add they're both incredibly ugly?



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


 Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

 How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before. 

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.) 


 Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


 Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

 How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before. 

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.) 


 Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics

You really, really haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The PS3 has vastly more processing power than the PS2, more memory and a hard drive.
It is not just graphics that are better but also key elements such as physics and AI.
This is why the PS3 will, ultimately, blow the Wii away. The Wii is more comparable with the PS2. 

 



Incisive and erudite blog by game industry professional.

http://www.bruceongames.com/

 

Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before.

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.)


Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics

Saying the PS3 is just a PS2 with prettier graphics is like saying a Wii is a GC with waggle. They're both wrong. These are, of course, the major upgrades both consoles have when it comes to gameplay, but the biggest thing that the seventh generation has seen over the sixth generation is an operating system for every console. Wii has their channels, Xbox360 has its dashboard, PS3 has its XMB. Before this, you would put the disc in, turn it on, and the game would start.

Of course, this is what people miss out on when they wonder why the Wii costs so much, they think that the processor is the only thing of importance, they neglect that the Wii now has Wifi, Bluetooth, SD card reader, built in memory, etc, over the GC. The PS3, of course, has Wifi, Bluetooth, Card reader, Hard Drive, etc over the PS2, as well as services that take advantage of that (built in online).



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

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marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

The PSP has a rubbish battery life, terrible controls and is too big to be truly portable. The DS has a great user interface. Explained here: http://www.bruceongames.com/2007/10/02/the-future-it-is-all-a-gesture/ It also has some great software that appeals to a very wide demographic. It has had no real competition so has done very well. The future competition to DS is more likely to come from iPod/iPhone than it is from Sony.

Incisive and erudite blog by game industry professional.

http://www.bruceongames.com/

 

Bruceongames said:
This is a gradual process.
12 months from now the Wii will probably still be quite hot.
24 months from now the Wii will probably be seen as being just as obsolete as the PS2.

This timing is very approximate and either or both could move by as much as 12 months. That doesn't make it less inevitable.

It is no good talking about previous generations of console because that is not what we are talking about. The paragrim shift here is that we are talking (for the first time in our industry) about a new generation of television.

Obviously the Wii right now is a big bundle of fun. It was the toy of choice in Q4 2007. But a lot of this was down to it being a craze or fad. Like hoola hoops once were. This will not continue when it is generally seen as being out of date.

Over lifetime the PS3 and 360 will both sell more than Wii. This is because they will have 10 year product lives.

 So you're saying that Wii might be quite hot and sell like crazy for another 24 months? And then it will die in a year, when it has an installed base of at least 50M?

And the paradigm shift is in the controller. 



Bruceongames said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before.

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.)


Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics

You really, really haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The PS3 has vastly more processing power than the PS2, more memory and a hard drive.
It is not just graphics that are better but also key elements such as physics and AI.
This is why the PS3 will, ultimately, blow the Wii away. The Wii is more comparable with the PS2.

 

We then come back to the ds then. why has it humbled a far superior console as the psp is. In your logic the psp should have wiped the floor with the ds. again i dont think graphics or processing power is as important as you think it is. If it was the case the xbox would have beaten the ps2. has the most powerful console ever won the sales war? I dont think you have the faintest idea what you are talking about. Graphics are not the most important thing in a console.

 



I want wii fit and I want it now

 

Bruceongames said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


 Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

 How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before. 

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.) 


 Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics

You really, really haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The PS3 has vastly more processing power than the PS2, more memory and a hard drive.
It is not just graphics that are better but also key elements such as physics and AI.
This is why the PS3 will, ultimately, blow the Wii away. The Wii is more comparable with the PS2. 

 

it can have all the Ai and physics it wasnts, if it doesn't change the games then whats the point, its still the same games on the PS2 just prettier

 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

omgwtfbbq said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Bladeneo said:
marioblazer said:
Im wondering what your take an the ds is then. The psp was supposed to be a better console, better graphics, games on cd. Yet the ds has humbled it. Why?

could it be that gamers arent as exited by graphics as you say. I own a ds as well as a wii. not because they are made by nintendo but they are different.

Ps3 is the ps2 with prittier graphics. the 360. same as the xbox.

Why the HD assumption that everybody wants it and that in 12 months nintendo will release wii 2. they cant make enough of the wii now. Even if the wii does have a massive fall in popularity nintendo can reduce the price much more than its competitors due to it costing less to produce. This will increase the popularity of the console again.

different coloured wiis. again not to important but history shows when it happens products fly of the shelf. Nintendo has all the bases covered.

And thats why Im not going to listen to you anymore. The PS3 is NOT a suped up PS2; it offers a hell of a lot more. Thats like me saying the Wii Is a suped up eyetoy, it makes no sense.

Youre talking about Nintendo being able to reduce cost and introduce new colours and 'history' shows it'll work. Past evidence doesnt necessarily correlate well with the Wii because its hitting new markets that had never been considered before. Its an entirely different field with the Wii, sure new colours and lower price would up the demand a bit, but whos to say if it'd work on the same level as it has in the past? Price obviously isnt that big a deal anyway considering how much people are spending on them on Ebay etc.


DS, new colors always spark new sales of the DS, DS is the best indicator of Wii success

 

Also gamewise PS3 has done nothing to show that it is anything more than a graphical update, blu-ray playback and such is irrelevent


Okay, Ill admit its worked with the DS but the fact remains past evidence shouldnt automatically be used to map the Wii's lifecycle cause its new territory.

How is Blu-Ray playback irrelevant? It offers something the PS2 couldnt. PS3 has online services, something the PS2 pretty much lacked entirely until later on. To be fair the games ive played so far on the PS3 have been pretty damn impressive, regardless of whether or not theyve just recieved a graphical update. Heavenly sword for example is one of the most cinematic games ive played, a feeling ive not had with a game before.

(By cinematic I mean it felt as though the entire game was like a movie; and thats not to downplay the gameplay which was fairly impressive.)


Not everyone cares about Blu-ray, and it does nothing for gameplay, PS2 had online even if it was later, and it had cinematic games, all PS3 does over the PS2 game wise is improved graphics

Saying the PS3 is just a PS2 with prettier graphics is like saying a Wii is a GC with waggle. They're both wrong. These are, of course, the major upgrades both consoles have when it comes to gameplay, but the biggest thing that the seventh generation has seen over the sixth generation is an operating system for every console. Wii has their channels, Xbox360 has its dashboard, PS3 has its XMB. Before this, you would put the disc in, turn it on, and the game would start.

Of course, this is what people miss out on when they wonder why the Wii costs so much, they think that the processor is the only thing of importance, they neglect that the Wii now has Wifi, Bluetooth, SD card reader, built in memory, etc, over the GC. The PS3, of course, has Wifi, Bluetooth, Card reader, Hard Drive, etc over the PS2, as well as services that take advantage of that (built in online).


 Yet none of those things affect it gamewise, what game can you tell me that is so different that it couldn't have been done on the PS2 with a graphical downgrade, with Wii there are games that could not be done on the GCN



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)