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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony stock 24 year low. "No turnaround in sight".

Mr Khan said:
kowenicki said:
 

You see this is exactly what I am talking about....

I'll forgive the terrible and numerous spelling mistakes.... but...

The "analysis" in your post is just ill-informed nonsense.  Their losses are due to a business model that DEPENDS on a weaker yen.  The TV losses and others are just symptoms of that approach and ongoing problem.  Their profit margin has always been very, very low and is now negative due to the Yen.  The Source is partially correct, but again is massively over-simplifying the problem.  He doesn't seem to factor in exchange rate issues that will remain and doesn't factor in the large debt that Sony have to re-finance over the next few years with a worsening credit rating that will further drag on the profit margin.  He also doesn't factor in Korean and Chinese wishes to replace the Japanese electronic giants, which to be frank they can do at will it seems. 

The whole business model needs reviewing.  Luckily Sony (unlike their "fans") realise this and are trying to do it.... but they really have their work cut out.

Playstation may be better off a stand alone business along the lines of Nintendo... but you have to wonder how and where the R&D input would come from.

The last point is the question that would defeat the notion of the PlayStation division which, while it brings in profits in the long run, requires the presence of other profitable divisions to remain functioning in the short run. E.g. Sony makes most of its money in the latter three quarters of the devices life, rather than the first quarter, but how much of that money would they burn in R&D if that's all they had to play with?

The PlayStation business model would need significant rewiring if it were to function independently


It is a very bad decision in the first place.

The Playstation brand is big enough that it feeds all its other departments.

Sony has a significant stake in DVD, and makes and sells movies, ps2 used DVD. That's an example.

Looking at playstation division alone without looking at the nourishment it provides to the rest of the company, through marketplace venues or brand strengthening, is folly. The fact is, Playstation by itself would have wasted profits. It's like mining crude oil just to make natural gas, there's all kinds of other fuel that comes as a by product of making natural gas. It makes more sense to have a bucket for each byproduct than to let outsiders stand around the well waiting for payday.



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Seece said:
Turkish said:
Seece said:
Turkish said:
Seece said:
Turkish said:
I'm sure Sony will overcome this, they're the leader in electronics, generations of entertainment and consoles only start when Sony says so: PS2, dvd, blu ray, PS3, walkman etc.


Your posts are so embarssing, I swear you're a parody

Embarssing? Thats so embarrassing, I swear you're a parody.

Do you even know what that is? And your predictions are terrible too!

 

Probably know it better then you since I spelled it correctly. Oh you're so predictable crying about my predictions. I think my 10 months old predictions  are quite good, I probably made the most daring and gutsy predictions. Who are you anyway bitching about my posts, I don't even know you. Why'd you pop out out of the blue and annoy me.

I was talking about parody, and becuase you're one of the worst people on the site at the moment with your ridiculous posts.

'It doesn't start until Sony says so' rofl

And no, your predictions are just like every other sony fans on this site, optimistic.

Kind of like how every other Microsoft fan makes hasty, or sweeping generalizations?



 

Icyedge said:
Strangely, its the company putting the most ressources in making games lol.


Very dangerous indeed.



Yay!!!

yo_john117 said:
kivi95 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
So how the hell are they going to have the funds to launch both vita and ps4?
I suppose if either of these fail, than Sony might have to leave the console business all together


The day I will leave gaming :(

I've never really understood this line of thinking. 

Why would anyone quit gaming just because a company stops making games. You know if Sony somehow dropped out of the console race that there would be another company to take it's place.

 

It's not like there would be a lack of quality games coming out.

Unless the company that replaces them is SEGA, then I would so the same.



goforgold said:
yo_john117 said:
goforgold said:
yo_john117 said:
kivi95 said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
So how the hell are they going to have the funds to launch both vita and ps4?
I suppose if either of these fail, than Sony might have to leave the console business all together


The day I will leave gaming :(

I've never really understood this line of thinking. 

Why would anyone quit gaming just because a company stops making games. You know if Sony somehow dropped out of the console race that there would be another company to take it's place.

 

It's not like there would be a lack of quality games coming out.

the difference between someone who cares about a console more than the games and someone who is a true gamer who goes wherever the games are and doesn't bother so much with console wars BS.

yes, there seriously would be a Severe lack of quality games

OT: they really need to sort that yen out and soon

No really there wouldn't be because there would be another console maker with all new games to take it's place and many of the games from the Playstation consoles would most likely find their way to the remaining consoles on the market.

 

I fixed the bolded for you to make it more accurate

care about a console more than games.........is such a thing even possible

and at the bold, how do you know...answer, you don't and it's just wichfull thinking, but the fact remains that without the above situation, a SEVERE lack of quality games would be the result of the industry depending only on MS and Nintendo

yeah wait all year to those three games that only release every OTHER holiday, and of those you'd be EXTREMELY lucky if just one is a new ip, I'm sorry but fuck that shit

Yeah exactly neither of us knows what would happen if the unlikely event of Sony not making Playstation anymore would happen. But you guys act as if they went out of business then there would be no good games left, which is untrue. They wouldn't just leave all those Sony IP's and games studios that are ripe for the picking sit around and collect dust.

 

If any one of the big three went out of business someone else would just take their place because that's how business works.

Just looks at how Sega dropped out...gaming is still great and there are no lack of good games coming out.



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padib said:
theprof00 said:
Mr Khan said:
kowenicki said:
 

You see this is exactly what I am talking about....

I'll forgive the terrible and numerous spelling mistakes.... but...

The "analysis" in your post is just ill-informed nonsense.  Their losses are due to a business model that DEPENDS on a weaker yen.  The TV losses and others are just symptoms of that approach and ongoing problem.  Their profit margin has always been very, very low and is now negative due to the Yen.  The Source is partially correct, but again is massively over-simplifying the problem.  He doesn't seem to factor in exchange rate issues that will remain and doesn't factor in the large debt that Sony have to re-finance over the next few years with a worsening credit rating that will further drag on the profit margin.  He also doesn't factor in Korean and Chinese wishes to replace the Japanese electronic giants, which to be frank they can do at will it seems. 

The whole business model needs reviewing.  Luckily Sony (unlike their "fans") realise this and are trying to do it.... but they really have their work cut out.

Playstation may be better off a stand alone business along the lines of Nintendo... but you have to wonder how and where the R&D input would come from.

The last point is the question that would defeat the notion of the PlayStation division which, while it brings in profits in the long run, requires the presence of other profitable divisions to remain functioning in the short run. E.g. Sony makes most of its money in the latter three quarters of the devices life, rather than the first quarter, but how much of that money would they burn in R&D if that's all they had to play with?

The PlayStation business model would need significant rewiring if it were to function independently


It is a very bad decision in the first place.

The Playstation brand is big enough that it feeds all its other departments.

Sony has a significant stake in DVD, and makes and sells movies, ps2 used DVD. That's an example.

Looking at playstation division alone without looking at the nourishment it provides to the rest of the company, through marketplace venues or brand strengthening, is folly. The fact is, Playstation by itself would have wasted profits. It's like mining crude oil just to make natural gas, there's all kinds of other fuel that comes as a by product of making natural gas. It makes more sense to have a bucket for each byproduct than to let outsiders stand around the well waiting for payday.

I disagree with the whole Playstation is doomed going on here, but the question I have for you is the chicken and the egg problem. For Playstation to feed the other arms, it needs to be fed itself internally. The reason is that Sony needs a loss-leading platform in most cases to be relevant in the market (hence loss-leaders for the past 2 gens). Unless it changes its current markeups and general hardware strategy (returning to profit-making systems if they ever did that), they may be in trouble.

Having said that though, I believe there are arms that are weakening the company that may need to be chopped off, but I don't think the playstation and the gaming division are part of that. Having said that though, they are now releasing the Vita as a loss-leader. In a time of difficulty, while already struggling to make profit, year over year, could the timing of this news be any worse?

You gotta spend money to make money.

The issue isn't about Sony's products. It's about currency. Sony has always sold products at a higher price than competitors. People still buy them.

Were Sony not based in Japan, they would be doing fine.

What Sony needs to do is restructure the way their income works.

They need to someone change how profits and costs are allocated by region. Since they have several regions, they should be allocating profits to weak currencies from strong currencies.



Sony and Toyota are 2 globally iconic Japanese brands. I wonder, in that context, if the Japanese Govt would allow Sony to die. Would be interesting to know what would happen if it came to that brink.

Playstation is one of the few Sony brands that's selling very well, and even with the price cut is probably marginally profitable. If Sony's going to drop some hardware products I doubt it'll be Playstation



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

miz1q2w3e said:
RolStoppable said:
If Sony goes third party, they should develop exclusively for Nintendo platforms. That way Nintendo would become the definitive leader in gaming.

It's mostly third party games that people love on PS so no big loss if they're gone altogether 

If Sony goes, Nintendo and Sony should finally create and finish the super console they had started



kowenicki said:
snakenobi said:
Lyrikalstylez said:
So how the hell are they going to have the funds to launch both vita and ps4?
I suppose if either of these fail, than Sony might have to leave the console business all together


the current SONY losses include PS4 and VITA R&D

they can get money by selling assests as they have alot of them

 

the current SONY's shit has alot to do with their long term planning,you can see by recent ericsson acquisition,ip building,qriocity,etc

also its not that much about about SONY as its about the financial crisis in EU and US

 

Ninty and MS will be in the same situation so lets hope this irresponsible debt problem in EU and US can be solved

Yet again you have a very strange stance on this... and a very weird way of looking at it.

Oh... and irresponsible debt problem in EU/US?

you got any idea of the Japanese debt level v its GDP?


Yeah and if you did your research you'd realize that the majority of Japan's debt is in bonds, basically money it owes itself. What? You think a country with that level of debt vs GDP would actually remain solvent for long? They also have very little in foreign debt, unlike the U.S. which is basically China and Japan's bitch for the forseeable future. If I were you Kowenicki, I'd worry less about your hard on for hating on Japan and worry more about lost causes like the UK, which is fundamentaly bankrupt and more or less done.



maverick40 said:
kowenicki said:
Some of the responses in here are oh so predictable...

Take it up with Bloomberg, the quoted analysts and the finance minister of Japan if you dont likk the article. Show them where they have gone wrong. Tell the Japanese government that all is well and they can stop propping up the economy like they have for the last 20 years..... Tell Sony not to fret and that they dont need to re-organise and cut costs dramatically (this is there own stated aim)

This thread is just reporting what is happening and people are commenting. Instead of a smart reposnse how about commenting on what is a very real situation. If you have no interest in the business apsects then stay the hell out of the thread... simple.

If you arent allowed to comment on a topic unless you are an employed expert in the field then you may aswell close the forums completely.



This thread and who it is posted by is oh so predictable. I know how much you want sony to stop making hardware for some stupid childish reason, but the fact is yes they are losing ALOT money but they are never going to stop making the playstation hardware as much you hate to hear it. 

You are always the person who is posting teh sony is doomed articles, give it a rest mate. This site is about games, keep it that way. 

Seece and Kowenicki, the usual suspects, get used to it. You should have seen Seece's debut at N4G though, good times, good times.

I wouldn't worry about it though, worse comes to worse the Japanese government will bail out Sony (you know, just how the U.S. bailed out it's auto industry), they are far too vital as an economic entity to just let wither on the vine, though the short term looks grim, they are necessary in the longterm and adjustments will be made. Sony's recent loses can also be attributed to recent aquisitions and R and D costs. As for the usual Japan-hating suspects in this thread, I'd pray that the 3rd largest economy in the world doesn't implode. You think Greece is a problem? Wait til a massive economy goes down, then you'll see some chaos. Of course the powers that be in the financial world would never let Japan spiral into insolvency, there's just too much to lose to let that happen.