Yeah that seems to be a pretty true statement. All I was trying to say to Runa is that there is just as much violence from non-religious people as there is religious. Its near impossible to defend religion in general these days with all the Islamic terrorism going on though. Those people are just crazy though and twist the words in the qua'ran to give them the jusitification they need to kill people. 

Look, just calm down for a second and go re-read my original post. All I said is that religion CAN teach kids good values like not to steal, not to kill, etc. You're the one that brought up everything else like homophobia and violence. 

And like I said I'm not a religious guy anymore, but I was brought up religious, and I was told not to steal or I'd go to hell...and guess what? I've never stolen anything in my life. I've outgrown my religious beliefs but I haven't outgrown the morals I gained from it. And I'm not saying religion is the only reason I'm not a serial killer, I also have really good parents that raised me well, but having religion at a young age certainly didn't hurt. 

I am not 65 yet. :p

and like I've said from the beginning, you don't need religion to teach morals.  there's no need to get involved with all the "go to hell, god is watching, but ignore all these other rules" crap. it's irrational to assume that Religion is a good (or better) source of morals than common sense or law.  

To summarize the method and objective of this thread.

Is ______________________________ irrelevant for society today?  Behold, a list of negative traits that can be associated with _____________________.

Objective: present _________________ as something that ought to be removed as soon as possible for the betterment of all.  Without a counterpoint in the premise, readers are manipulated into agreeing with the author.  This happens in surveys all the time, many of which are conducted not to measure public opinion, but to change it for a predetermined agenda. 

The _________________ can even be filled with anything.  Social welfare.  Immigrants.  Alcohol.  Let's use that as an example.

Is alcohol irrelevant for society today?  Behold, a list of negative traits that can be associated with alcohol.

-Primary factor in crimes of a violent and/or sexual nature

-Strong factor in epidemiology of sexually transmitted disease

-Increases risk of suicide, depression, and doing something injurious and potentially fatal to one's self accidentally

-Impaired judgment = inevitable accidents, commonly vehicular collisions, unwanted pregnancies also deserving of mention

-Addictive and addicts have a demonstratively greater difficulty maintaining a stable home environment for children and are more likely to lose their job as a direct or indirect result of said addiction.

-Long-term health complications as a result of alcohol consumption requires a heavy upkeep paid by the health care dollar in taxes.

-Easiest vehicle for application of date rape drugs

-Consumption during pregnancy is highly damaging to developing fetus, and those with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome are now known to have a medical condition that impairs their ability to control their anger.  Doesn't play out too well in the end, most of the time.

Considering the structure of the argument, contrary opinion seems objectively indefensible, especially if "irrelevant" is given a "bad" or "negative" context, rather than a context of indifference or at least balanced fairly.  Rolling with the example of alcohol, there is an obvious counterpoint that justifies the relevance that has been thrown into question.  It is a choice.  And all choices can be made either responsibly or irresponsibly.  Personally, I'd rather have someone ranting at me about fire and brimstone than ranting about lens flare whilst excreting and reeking like a distillery .  It's less unpleasant to the senses and the odds of being violenced (now a word) is dramatically lower.  Unless they are ranting about fire and brimstone while blackout drunk.  That's probably a lot worse than the lens flare discussion.

Responsible folks who practice religion often participate in voluntary institutions of society that tend to the needs of those who have been left behind by the economic system.  In other words, these people fill one of society's needs in one of many possible ways that you could likely conjure on your own without my having to list them.  Ergo, their actions, commonly guided by their faith, fulfill a role that is relevant in modern society.  Responsible drinkers contribute to society as well; by purchasing alcohol their tax dollars go into various institutions society is dependent upon and alcohol sales are way too damn profitable for anyone to ignore.

Contrary beliefs, opinions and practices to your own (and my own as well) are relevant in modern society if we are truly meaning to call ourselves civilized.

aaaha, no. Your repeated inability to see through the fallacies of Religion should instantly disregard anything you have to say on the matter. 

I see we finally get to the real motives why people hate religion and try to actively reduce it's importance.

Religions preserve a set of traditional values which is huge problem for certain minorities who would want to push their own agenda but are blocked by conservatist values upheld by majority.

wait, did you really just say that? I'm having a hard time taking you seriously. 

EVERYTHING IS A LIBERAL AGENDA HURRDURR!  What is this, Fox News? 

half all all religious need was removed when the street lamp was invented.

Religion has always been first and foremost, a way to get people to obey the law when nobody is watching them. Almost all religions share an "omnipresent" being of some kind.
And almost all promise a reward for not being bad.
Basically, the whole of religion can be drummed up into, don't rob and kill that person on the street, if you can abstain from doing this, you will be rewarded beyond your wildest dreams in the afterlife.

Judaism has no afterlife to speak of, and Shinto puts very little influence on the afterlife. Buddhist morality is very far away from the Christian perception and their end-goal is very ambiguous in nature, nor do Confucianism and Taoism advocate much in the way of afterlife, though the latter at least makes a sense of cosmic order

In short, religion's role as a social glue is much more complex than a simple carrot-and-stick heaven-or-hell mentality that we often boil Christianity down to, since Christian social ethics also hinge upon far more than where you're going