You clearly do not, you can't possibly not consider SMW an illegitimate Mario title and have any grasp as to what a Mario title is. You also write off the very first Mario game as a tech demo. This shows you have no concept of a legitimate Mario game, you prefer these three Mario games on a personal level and discount the others as not being legit. But that is an opinion and not grounded in any fact what so ever.

Also your bets about Mario games, I did lose a bet to you a very long time ago about the fact that NSMBW would out sell Galaxy. You did end up being right and the bet was I would surrender a year of sig or avatar. I contacted you directly after NSMBW won and asked what you wanted in the sig. I never got a response, I expected you to then contact me with your demand or what you wanted to see however you did not. I realized later on when I tried contacting you again that you had a ban.

Fact is I gave you that year of control, you did not accept it. Its not my fault you never responded to my message or messaged me yourself. It is not my fault you got banned and my later attempts to get a hold of you failed. Fact is the deal expired a long time ago you had ample time to have me post something in my sig and did not respond to my message or message me! That's your loss!

Also just because a 2D Mario game sells better then a 3D Mario title doesn't make the 3D title any less of a Mario title. By that logic Metal Gear Solid 1,2,3,4 are not actually legit Metal Gear Solid games, Sonic Adventure isn't a legit game, Doom3 isn't a legit game heck almost every single franchise that has existed from the NES/SNES era onwards are not legit games. I mean 3D changed every single game it touched and by your standards none of them are really legit!

That is a twisted belief, however you then go further and not even acknowledge the 2D Mario games. MarioBros(Arcade/Atari2600), SuperMarioWorld (SNES), NewSuperMarioBros:DS, All the Mario games on GB.

If you want to get technical none of the Mario games you listed are legitimate none hold the gameplay of the first Mario game. None maintain much of a reference what so ever to Mario (Jumpman). Donkey Kong was the first Mario game and none of the future Mario titles you mention or even I mention actually represent Mario as he was when he was created.

Face it Mario has evolved and your Mario favorites are no less Mario games then Donkey Kong which my mom and I played or the MarioBros title on Atari2600 or the Mario 3D titles that followed or the Mario 2D titles you conveniently ignore because you personally don't think they match your exact idea of what a Mario game is!

Umm yah this definitly depends on if your talking with a Pokemon fan or not. Because any real Pokemon fan would take offense to someone saying the later Pokemon games were not real Pokemon games. They are real Pokemon games and in fact they share all the same plot lines and gameplay elements. In fact Pokemon remains the same game it always has been at its core despite generations of consoles.

Fact is you can't make a comment that a title is not real simply because you prefer an older title. Pyro isn't even mentioning the legit Mario game that started the whole thing (Donkey Kong) or the first MarioBros game which he calls a tech demo. In fact he doesn't consider SMW a real Mario game either according to the OP. The defence you make above doesn't apply to this situation as it has no basis what so ever.

As for 3D Mario being a spin off. That's one way you could view it but it doesn't hold water in the industry. If you refer to every title that changed when 3D came out then every single franchise since N64 has been a spin-off. This includes the likes of Metal Gear etc...etc... they aren't spin offs they were the natural progression of the technology.

The gameplay elements of Mario titles remained consistent with small improvements from SuperMarioBros (NES) through Mario Galaxy. The platforming and collecting coins and boss battles and the plot and character all remained consistent. Those titles are legit in every way unlike MarioKart for example that actually switched genre's or Paper Mario which was also a new genre.

2D Mario is classic Mario. Another example is Transformers 3D a movie? I mean when movies first came out they lacked volume and colour. So when audio was added and later colour did they cease to be movies? Then when they went HD were they still movies? Then finally when they went 3D are they still movies? Of course they are they still do the same thing they have not drastically changed.

Is a live action a legit film if based on an animation?

Calling a title that is a direct descendant of the franchises past titles. Which features the same characters , plot lines and game play elements is a true sequel. Their is no getting around that! You may prefer the classics and grew up with them you so you have a nostalgic view of them as the originals. But what makes the newer titles less Mario then the old ones? What makes the originals before you started playing not Mario games while the ones you played growing up somehow are?

Pyro is relying entirely on nostalgia and bias to decide which titles are legit and which are not!

Pyro, you better go after a mental health professional. Obsession can become pretty serious at times.

False. While there are some fans that fit that mold, I don't believe every poke fan does, especially me. I believe the Stadium games to be as much real pokemon games as the handheld ones, even if their core gameplay is entirely different. It's based on the same concept and it gives the same playability as the combat portion of the handheld games and that to me is enough for them to be true pokegames. The Colisseum ones can also fit the mold in the collection department, while giving a slightly gimped version of the combat playability, yet they're still enjoyable. 

Heck, even Pokemon Snap is one hell of a pokemon game, one of my favourite in the entire pokemon legacy.

Such heated debate - over a bunch of Donkey Kong spinoffs!

Oh I don't object to the notion of the 3D Mario games being considered spin-offs, and I don't think you'll find many on this thread debating that. What's really irking people and what's really selfish from Pyro's part is calling the 2D Nes mario games the only "real" Mario games, and giving each other Mario game as a "unworthy" connoctation and every Mario fan that doesn't see his way as being less of a Mario fan than him. 

People can see the 3D Marios as they see fit, but they aren't less of more of a Mario game than the 2D ones, in worthiness. What Pyro fails to see and respect is the fact that Mario games appeal differently to every set of fans, thus there not being a "true" Mario style of games. You can say that the 2D Nes ones started it all and are the most pure form of Mario games, but every iteration from there added things that appealed more or less to some fans and brought more people to the series. 

Mario, as a whole legacy, shouldn't have a segregation of what is a "true" fan or what is a "true" game. It doesn't work like that for a series so vast and with so many fans behind it. Khuutra said it best in his post, the entitlement of the Retrocore-ism on Pyro's part is the really problem driving his thread (and pretty much every other thread he has created lately).

That's because Pyro's logic leaves no room for discussion. He clearly dictates that his logic is flawless and that basically he alone knows the truth. When you create a thread of such impact using dogmas and not actual arguments, then of course people will attack them and will no reason with them. This is not the 15th century when you could claim to be sole bearer of the truth and get away with it. His threads always fall into that, and quite frankly people are getting tired of it. At least Khuutra tried to reason with him, and what did Pyro did? He called him a troll....yeah, that's the way to go entirely. 

Of course there's an opposing force to retrocore-ism exists and that the 3D worshipers are in much more prevalence nowadays. It's only normal for it to be so, just as the Sprite worshippers were in prevalence over the polygon worshippers back in the transition from the SNES to the PS1/Saturn/N64 era who claimed that there wouldn't be better animations that those found on sprite-based animations. It's wrong on both ways and if someone came here claiming that the 3D Mario games were the "true" ones using the same logic that Pyro had, then I would use the same replies I did. 

Don't get me wrong, my favourite Mario games are the 2D ones, by far. Heck, my entire favourite generation is the sprite one and I've struggled to find 3D games in all my experience to match games such as Secret of Mana II, Lufia II, Terranigma and so on. It's just that I can't stand when either faction goes on claiming that his/hers is the true one and anyone who likes differently is less of a fan.

Son of a bitch! Are you telling me that your entire part in this discussion is existent only because you don't grasp the nuance of the OP's use of the term "REAL Mario game" in English?

It always amazes me how much effort some "gamers" put into not just limiting what kind of games people should like but also what games to count as games. It's truly mindboggling.

Thing is, if Pyro's creating these threads in such fashion, then he's doing them too soon and too fast and he's falling into an area that no longer people can (or bother to) tell if he's actually being serious or not. Too much of the same thing in a limited time frame is just annoying. 

If he's actually being serious, on the other hand, then he should expect that few, if any, people will take him seriously, especially when (again, given IF he's trying to be serious about it) he's unwilling to give an inch in his argument nor is he willing to dialogue a common ground between his logic and the logic of others.

Anyway, I promised myself I would stay away from his threads since the last fiasco, yet I clearly failed that, so that's probably my major fault in this whole shenanigan.