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Forums - Politics Discussion - Poll: Israel or Palestine?

 

Who do you support in the conflict and why?

Israel 124 34.35%
 
Palestine 235 65.10%
 
Total:359
Kasz216 said:
esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

I like how your acting like the Jews picked up and intentionally left.  Either your bias is showing or lack of historical knowledge.

Either way it suggests you should take a step back from the thread you've created, and either stop buying into blatant propaganda or just learn more about the situation.


Essentially ask yourself this.  If Israel were to force out all the palestinians violently.... would the Palestinians have a right to take back their homeland at a later date.

If your answer here is yes.... then you are basically a hypocrit.

Nevermind the fact that the Jews didn't do it primarily through violence, but instead through money.

My answer is indeed yes to your question, you may call me a hypocrit for this but the palestinians UNLIKE the Israelis did not recieve the right to take back their homeland at a later date so ur argument is invalid and contradictory



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Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Israel has only existed since the end of the Second World War. Palestine has decreased in size as Israel has increased its boundaries and forced the Palestinians into refugee camps. The State of Palestine will no longer exist as Israel expands its boundaries and forces the Palestinians out of Israel.


EXACTLY, this summarises it ALL



esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

1. The Jews were forced out from Israel against their will. But not all the Jews left when the Romans occupied Israel and later destroyed Jerusalem. Some Jews managed to stay. There's been a continous presence of Jews in Palestine ever since, under Arab, Ottoman and British rule.

2. When the modern state of Israel was formed 63 years ago the land was under British control after having been under Ottoman control for hundreds of years. There was no Arab control of the territory. Jews moved into empty barren lands that were administered by the British. There has never been a Palestinian state.

3. Israel didn't want to drive anyone out. They would have let all Arabs stay as rightful citizens inside the newly formed state of Israel. Israel was were forced by attacking Arab nations to fight for its survival, and miraculously Israel won a war of defense. During the chaos of war thousands of Arabs fled and were driven out (who can blame the Israelis? They didn't ask to be attacked).



Mr Khan said:
MrBubbles said:
And what of the jews living all over the middle east forced to leave their home countries? where are the reparations for them? where is their right of return?

They ended up in a first-world country. Who's complaining?


That's a very naive way of seeing it. Jews have been prosecuted in Spain in the middle ages, even all of them departed in 1492, in Germany 6 million killed, in the Communist countries, South America... They have been fleeing from place to place, it's not that they had luck.



esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

1. The Jews were forced out from Israel against their will. But not all the Jews left when the Romans occupied Israel and later destroyed Jerusalem. Some Jews managed to stay. There's been a continous presence of Jews in Palestine ever since, under Arab, Ottoman and British rule.

2. When the modern state of Israel was formed 63 years ago the land was under British control after having been under Ottoman control for hundreds of years. There was no Arab control of the territory. Jews moved into empty barren lands that were administered by the British. There has never been a Palestinian state.

3. Israel didn't want to drive anyone out. They would have let all Arabs stay as rightful citizens inside the newly formed state of Israel. Israel was were forced by attacking Arab nations to fight for its survival, and miraculously Israel won a war of defense. During the chaos of war thousands of Arabs fled and were driven out (who can blame the Israelis? They didn't ask to be attacked).



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I don't understand why the two peoples can't live together. As an American, surrounded by people of all different political views, religions, and races, it's hard for me to comprehend two peoples hating each other so much that they can't come to any understanding in the over 60 years since the end of the war. Once the war was over Isreal should have slowly homogenized and it's people melted together.

Like the USA it would not have been perfect, but if both sides respected each other enough not to kill innocents then it could have worked. Instead it's a split state with both sides declaring ownership of all. The only difference seems to be that Palestine wants the Jews to leave and Isreal is willing to concede land for peace. But both sides keep bombing each other as revenge for previous bombings. It's a vicious cycle that I doubt either side can even keep track up.

The cold hard truth is that Israel won the war and the subsequent battles. It doesn't really matter who has historical claim. The war is over, Israel is a state. Everyone needs to deal with it, because it's not going to change. Israel didn't have to give any land to Palestine, but they did. That's something. But instead of demanding more and more concessions, Palestinians should demand peaceful reintegration. What's so bad about living together in the same country?

Palestine got the short end of the stick, but they lost the war. They could have stayed and worked for peace as one nation, but it's all or nothing for Palestine. It's demoralizing to lose sovereignty to another state, but if the Palestinians would be willing to live in the same cities as Jews there's no reason why the two religions couldn't work together.

Like I said, from an American perspective it's hard for me to understand why Palestinians and Israels refuse to live together. I'm not saying America is perfect, it's not, but it's an examples of people of all different points of view who at the very least tolerate each others right to exist.



Slimebeast said:
esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

1. The Jews were forced out from Israel against their will. But not all the Jews left when the Romans occupied Israel and later destroyed Jerusalem. Some Jews managed to stay. There's been a continous presence of Jews in Palestine ever since, under Arab, Ottoman and British rule.

2. When the modern state of Israel was formed 63 years ago the land was under British control after having been under Ottoman control for hundreds of years. There was no Arab control of the territory. Jews moved into empty barren lands that were administered by the British. There has never been a Palestinian state.

3. Israel didn't want to drive anyone out. They would have let all Arabs stay as rightful citizens inside the newly formed state of Israel. Israel was were forced by attacking Arab nations to fight for its survival, and miraculously Israel won a war of defense. During the chaos of war thousands of Arabs fled and were driven out (who can blame the Israelis? They didn't ask to be attacked).


These are the facts READ THEM to claim its any middle eastern countries is wrong as it was given by Britain to the jews so as to escape what had happened in WW2 and call a land of their own. This is what i said before and to deny them is just lying to yourself!



Wait... does this mean im not human?

PSN addy - mrx95

A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination. - Nelson Mandela

A radical is a man with his feet planted firmly in the air. - Franklin.D.Roosevelt

 

I have to confess, I have no idea what that's all about. I'm usually pretty informed when it comes to world issues, but I've completely ignored that conflict over the years for whatever reason. Anyone care to explain? :)



esssam said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Israel has only existed since the end of the Second World War. Palestine has decreased in size as Israel has increased its boundaries and forced the Palestinians into refugee camps. The State of Palestine will no longer exist as Israel expands its boundaries and forces the Palestinians out of Israel.


EXACTLY, this summarises it ALL

Well, except for the fact that the Arab State of Palestine has never existed.   So if that's your arguement... (and it's a poor one.)

Second world war beats never.



esssam said:
Kasz216 said:
esssam said:
yo_john117 said:
osamanobama said:
well the land belongs to the israelis, so i would have to say Israel

This.

And how does it belong to them? is it because it used to be theirs according to religion?? ok, but does this give them an excuse to conquer it?? Lets say I used to live in a house and then I moved along and you came to rent it instead, does the fact that I used to live there before you give me an excuse to break in, physically vilate you and take the house? Because I really want to understand, when the jews were not in Israel were they taking a vacation just to come back to their "home" land again when it is finished?

I like how your acting like the Jews picked up and intentionally left.  Either your bias is showing or lack of historical knowledge.

Either way it suggests you should take a step back from the thread you've created, and either stop buying into blatant propaganda or just learn more about the situation.


Essentially ask yourself this.  If Israel were to force out all the palestinians violently.... would the Palestinians have a right to take back their homeland at a later date.

If your answer here is yes.... then you are basically a hypocrit.

Nevermind the fact that the Jews didn't do it primarily through violence, but instead through money.

My answer is indeed yes to your question, you may call me a hypocrit for this but the palestinians UNLIKE the Israelis did not recieve the right to take back their homeland at a later date so ur argument is invalid and contradictory

Except it isn't.

I never once claimed Israel had a right to take back their homeland.   I actually think what the British did by putting them in Palestine was wrong.

Had i been around back then I would of been Pro-Palestine, like Gahndi was.

HOWEVER, They are back in "their home" now, and you can't blame them for it.  They often tried to make peace with Palestine.

They offered more than palestine is offering now back when they had a stronger hand.