spurgeonryan said:
Joelcool7 said:
snakenobi said:
The new world order is shaping up slowly and also leading upto WW3
One side is NEW US/ISRAEL Hedgemony and the other side are countries like OLD USA,CHINA,RUSSIA,ISLAM NATIONS,AFRICA,GERMANY,ITALY and other free nations
Who are you gonna go with?
MOD:edit it if anything is offensive but don't delete it or jst message me if anything has to be reframed.
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Snake I am sorry but you have a very warped sense of free. The majority of Africa is far from free most is run by dictators and the ones that are democratic are very flawed. Islamic Countries are also very very far from free heck I'd say your freer in China another country on that list. Anywhere you get executed for your faith or sexual orientation or even imprisoned is far from free.
This New World order as its called as defined by your posts in this topic. Based around freedom is more free and fair then any time period in the history of man. I would have thought you meant economic freedom until you mentioned Italy and Germany who are both bound by economic ties and are not free at all.
It sounds almost like you are simply passing off Islamic propaganda and that of some communist countries as factual. The question is rigged and so is your OP. Give me an example of how the Middle Eastern countries are in any way freer then Israel or the US? The movement to bring democracy to the world which is often referred to as the New World Order is the best thing that could happen to the world.
Now I am not commenting on the whole New World Order since some points made by leaders have good points. But the spread of democracy is great for everyone!
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Sometimes you should write more than a few paragraphs. I would have thought that this would be your shining moment on this site JoelCool7! Dissapointed...
I picked US/ ISreal. Although in a war I hope that we have more than just isreal on our side! The other side has China for gods sake!
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Yah its my whole move to try and shorten up my responses. This my shining moment? lol I'm pretty sure I have had many moments that would eclipse anything I could possibly say now.
I was also on my way to a movie at the time, was running late no time to write a larger response.
I find the whole definition of these countries that oppose the western world are called free. I'll expand on why they are not free.
-Economic Freedom , the countries listed are no more economically free then their Crusader (Zionist) counter parts. China is the country that is strongest economically right now of those countries and is expected to become the dominant global economy. However it isn't free and even when it becomes the dominant global economy it will still rely on the rest of the globe for stability. Meaning the whole world needs to work together better in the future. leaving no country truly free. Even the countries that are resisting globalism and have nationalized the businesses within their state are free. Countries that are resisting globalization are heavily reliant on exports and very few could truly stand on their own for longer then a year. Notice that these countries against globalization are all close allies and work together economically and militarily, even they need each other. In this day and age there is not a single country on earth that is completely economically free.
Legally free, democracy. When people think free they think democracy and human rights very few countries on that list actually have democracy. Huge hunks of Africa are under the rule of authoritarian Governments. The Islamic world is also hardly free in fact even the most free countries in the Muslim world still persecute religious groups either officially or they do so unofficially. I can't think of a single Muslim country where all religious groups are truly treated as equals by the Government and people alike. Even if they have equality enshrined in their constitution the Government's will almost always turn a blind eye to persecution. So the majority of the countries Snake listed are not actually free in the fact that there countries people aren't free.
Sovereignty free, here is the one thing Snake could argue. That the countries opposed to the New World Order voted in the UN freely representing there countries. Not allowing the west to influence their votes, problem is do these leaders actually represent the wills of their people? Many of the countries who opposed Israel are run by dictators or are extremist Governments that do not rule their people justly.
Another thing since I am guessing the UN bid is what drew this whole thread. The US actually stated officially through many leaders that they want the UN to recognize the Palestinian state. In fact other then Israel I can't think of any country that opposed Palestine being recognized eventually. The reason the west was upset in particular the United States is because the Palestinian authorities tried to use the UN to circumvent Israel and draw up the borders unilaterally. Fact is if the UN recognized the Palestinian state on the grounds the Palestinian state put forward the UN would be effectively taking unilateral action against the state of Israel.
The message the US and other democratic states that opposed the bid have clearly stated once the Palestinians negotiate a settlement with Israel then the UN will fully recognize them. Its the manner in which the Palestinian authorities proposed their recognition to the UN. It was a dirty trick that has hurt any future ability to negotiate a two state solution.
What did the move show Israel? That Palestine doesn't want to negotiate fairly, they are unwilling to compromise and really aren't interested in offering any real solution. Going to the United Nations was essentially like example "I get in a fight with a friend and that friend is angry at me, we can't resolve the issue. After a day or so of not returning my calls trying to fix things he then decides to call the Police on me claiming to be the victim. The police respond and see both of us have good points and neither of us is really more or less responsible then the other. So the Police obviously can't arrest me or him they tell us to work things out and leave" Now do you think I am going to be happy and want to fix things with that friend? He called the police on me with no grounds even though I tried desperately to fix things.
Fact is Israel may have a hard liner Government. But even that stubborn hardliner government has shown a willingness to compromise even if not as much as Palestinians would like the Government has been willing to talk. The Palestinian Government on the other hand has not compromised worth shit. In fact the Palestinian Government can't even control its own country with Hamas ruling the Gaza Strip.
This move was grand standing on behalf of the Palestinian Authority. It was a publicity stunt to piss countries off at the supposed Zionist regime and try to force Israel to meet Palestinian demands by force and not negotiation. Using blackmail and manipulation will not bring about good results especially when you don't hold the cards.
