Wagram said:
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It should be superior being that it came out three years later. Plus how do you know the add on is crappy? Have you tried it? No you haven't.
| RolStoppable said: Most of the time the second stick is used for camera controls (when it is used at all) and the Gamecube's C-stick is a simple evolution of the Nintendo 64's C buttons which came into existence primarily for controlling a camera. That's probably why Nintendo decided to call a whole four buttons C, because the word camera also starts with a C. Luigi's Mansion was basically the "tech demo" to show off what the Gamecube controller can be used for. Metroid Prime 1 and 2 did not use the C-stick as a second analog, but rather as a second d-pad to select one out of four different beams. Zelda uses the C-stick for camera controls and the pointer of the Wiimote only does the job of the regular analog stick (looking around in first person perspective). There's hardly any Nintendo game where you can say that it requires a second analog stick, because those functions can be taken care of by other means. In the DS's and 3DS's case that would be the touch screen. Now regarding your points about the 3DS's failure. 1) Stereoscopic 3D "splits" the screen in two parts (one for each eye) and as a result the backlight is perceived much weaker than normal. To make up for this the brightness of the screen needed to be drastically increased which in turn reduced the battery life greatly. Therefore, 3D is the reason for the short battery life. 2) What they lacked foresight in was what the market wanted. Stereoscopic 3D doesn't add much, if anything, to a video game. As such, it's perceived value is close to zero. People don't like to pay for value of that level. Also, does the world really want to play expansive 3D games on a handheld or could we learn from the PSP that the market for such a platform is limited? What was Nintendo's reaction? They made a spiritual successor to the PSP instead of the DS. That's the root of all problems. A second circle pad won't make the 3DS more similar to the DS, but quite the opposite. Nintendo doesn't need third parties. Never have and never will. All their successful systems were kicked off by first party software and only then did third parties show up. The part in Nintendo's business model that is not sustainable is abandoning their own platforms. Nowadays, when every third party game goes multiplatform, what does this mean for Nintendo? Will third party software sell their system? Absolutely not. What is the best it could do then? Preventing existing owners of their systems to consider another platform. That's it. This means that Nintendo alone is responsible for selling their hardware in the first place. This is business as usual. What's left to keep an eye on is to maintain that customer base. One way to do this would be plenty of third party software, the other option would be Nintendo doing it themselves. Now in theory, who would be more reliable to do this job? It should be Nintendo. Just look at it as a gamer. Suppose you bought a Nintendo system. Why? Well, in the majority of cases it would be because of one or several Nintendo games. When is the point coming where you consider buying another platform? When there's nothing to play on your Nintendo system. Purchasing hardware sucks, because it costs a lot. So the first thing you usually do is looking for more games on platforms you already do own. A gamer doesn't necessarily need the absolute best game in any given genre, a sufficient substitute is usually good enough. That's how Sony's business model works and it can work, because they can rely on third parties. It's obvious that Nintendo would like to say the same thing about themselves with the way they try to reach out to third parties, but it's not going to work simply for the reason that third parties will always pick the non-Nintendo option if there is one. To get back to the 3DS, Nintendo shouldn't have made a 3D system in the first place. A generational leap in horsepower and relying on old strengths would have sealed the deal. Launch the system at or below $200 with an actual sequel to New Super Mario Bros. and they would have been fine. The circle pad should have gone below the d-pad to make it clear that 2D games will still be the primary type of gameplay. Also, it's much easier to operate a circle pad in such an awkward position than a d-pad. And with the DS successor selling like hot cakes out of the gate, what option would third parties have had other than supporting the damn thing? |
RE: 2nd stick
I can agree with you that Nintendo doesn't need a 2nd stick for their games. But that has more to do with what games they focus on. They don't do FPS and other types really.. Metroid Prime is about the closest and Prime simply utilized an autolock feature (kind dumbing it down really) on GC.
However, Wii has a definte 2nd stick in the IR pointer and that was amazing when used correctly in games like Metroid Prime 3, Conduit, and later CoD's. Fact is for certain genres (those that are VERY popular in the mass and core market right now in most of world) a 2nd stick or similar function is essentially required for the full effect.
With this in mind having one on the 3DS should have been considered mandatory to me.
RE: battery life
While you are absolutely right on why the life is down so much, your solution is only one. When they considered making 3D a major selling point, they should have made the necessary changes to allow longer battery. Otherwise, don't add the feature. I personally think 3D is nice option, so my vote was for bigger battery.
RE: Nintendo philosophy and 3rd party
This one is definitely more complicated. On one hand you are right that Nintendo must put out big name titles early to gain buyers regardless of what 3rd parties are doing. You are also right that they must focus on bringing their better games in a more constant pattern to keep its customers happy.
However, I think you're wrong that they shouldn't care about getting 3rd party at all. I do think the quality 3rd party titles should be pushed hard to bring over. I am a gamer... not just a Nintendo gamer. While my favorite IPs are made by Nintendo... I still want to play the many other games created at other studios. I don't want to have to purchase another $300 system just to play these solely because Nintendo's platform is too different for the company to port the game to.
3rd parties are companies and will want to make money if they can. Wii was simply too under powered to gain these titles and they rightfully felt they could make as much or money moeny focusing on PC/PS360... and they did. Then if they wanted to have low end ports it went to other bigger more common platforms like mobile.
I don't mind having a downgraded version... but I do mind not having the option at all.
To me, I'd rather of see 3DS as is with enough of a control scheme to match competitors to get all Nintendo's got plus the ports of others.
WiiU better do same thing. It better be powerful enough to be within reason to the next MSony consoles so 3rd parties will put games on it too. I know it already will have control options that give them portability, all that may be missing is raw power.
| RolStoppable said: RE: second stick We are still talking about a handheld here and the types of games people want to play on one differ from home console games. Last generation had GTA move to portables and it only sold a fraction of what it did on the PS2. FPS games like Call of Duty are heavily community driven nowadays and the only people who will buy a handheld version are those who are obsessed and have a life that takes them away from their home console too often. Everyone else will not go for the Vita version, because for one, the playerbase is far larger on the 360 and PS3 and two, the home consoles cost the same or less as the Vita. FPS aren't big on handhelds (and won't be), so why should systems be designed with them in mind, especially when it forces the control inputs to become too cluttered? It's a tradeoff that just isn't worth it. RE: battery life Keeping the 3D would have required a bigger battery to match the battery life of DS models. The original DS was often criticized for being bulky, so making the device larger wasn't in Nintendo's plan. You can't have all three things in one, so something had to give. Nintendo made the wrong decision. RE: third parties We've talked about it before and we won't really reach common ground this time either. You are willing to believe the third party logic of certain systems being worthy of specific versions while Nintendo's are not. I am not willing to believe this. Also, it's not like third parties have been swimming in money this entire generation. They persistently put their top tier games on non-Nintendo systems while leaving Nintendo out and so eventually forced the market to adjust to them instead of vice versa. Besides, why has it to be non-Nintendo systems that define what third party games will be like and all Nintendo can hope for are ports? I rather prefer the DS way that Nintendo crushes the competition and third parties have to make games for the Nintendo system first. |
That's exactly right
That thing looks hideous! You can try to spin this news whatever way you like, but this is a sure fire way to tell that Nintendo are not only feeling intimated by the Vita itself, but also for the great software support it's getting. Why they didn't just add a second analogue stick will they were developing the 3DS remains a mystery.
| TrevDaRev said: That thing looks hideous! You can try to spin this news whatever way you like, but this is a sure fire way to tell that Nintendo are not only feeling intimated by the Vita itself, but also for the great software support it's getting. Why they didn't just add a second analogue stick will they were developing the 3DS remains a mystery. |
i agree it looks...cumbersome, but i think this is more than just pressure from 3rd parties, than anything Sony is doing. There must be a PSV version of MH coming if Capcom is having them use such a weird peripherial for one game
pezus said:
Because Nintendo never copy, they only innovate |
oniyide said:
|
I posted this in another thread, but I believe it applies to this thread too:
I still don't believe Nintendo are about to launch a redesigned system. The only solid proof of what the second circle pad peripheral is so far, is that it's an optional add-on for Monster Hunter Tri G, desgined to replicate the Classic Controller Pro layout from Tri on the Wii. We'll only know for sure what it is on the 13th, but I firmly believe the peripheral is a concession to Capcom to get Monster Hunter Tri up and running on 3DS as quickly as possible.
Nintendo won't drop the 3DS because it's under-performing--the signs say anything but that, however, because the 3DS's rocky launch was Nintendo's first major misstep since the launch of the original DS, the vast majority of gaming sites and journalists (and even some more mainstream sources) are insisting that the 3DS is going to be written off by Nintendo.
Take a good look at what Nintendo are doing: They have a renewed focus on 3DS, and are taking aggressive actions to ensure the device doesn't die on the market. They've cut the price massively to entice new buyers, completely retooled and relaunched the promotional campaign for the system, launched a scheme to placate early adopters by giving them 20 (free) classic Nintendo titles, and are bringing their biggest mascot to the system globally in two big blockbusters in the crucial end of year sales season. Most impressively, they've gained a big new title in Monster Hunter Tri, which will cement the 3DS's momentum even as Vita's imminent launch appeared ready to disrupt it. They've also solidified their partnership with Capcom, with two of Capcom's biggest properties (Resident Evil and Monster Hunter) acting as two of 3DS's hottest upcoming titles.
And if even half the rumours spilling out of Japan are true, in-house software development has been ramped up, and Nintendo are about to unveil anything from a new Yoshi platformer to a Mach Rider reboot, or anything from WarioWare to a new Baiten Kaitos. Again--even if only half the rumours are true, significant Japanese publishers will announce new titles for 3DS at the conference--anything from Ace Attorney to Etrian Oddysey are rumoured announcements.
Does all of this paint the picture of a company ready to throw in the towel on 3DS?? It doesn't to me. To me, Nintendo look like they're putting all the weight they can behind the 3DS, to turn it from an underwhelming console to a successful console. They aren't just relying on their in-house software and price cuts, either, they seem to be reaching out to their third party partners. We'll only know for sure what the rest of Nintendo's rescue plan looks like after the 13th, but I don't believe for one second it'll involve a revised 3DS, let alone a system that ditches the name and downgrades the 3D capabilities of the console.
Nintendo are going to push 3DS as far as they can--if all that fails, and third party support and Nintendo's IP's don't sell the system, then they'll go back to the drawing board, but that would be the absolute, last resort.
padib said:
Why don't you apply for writer and provide these accurate posts for the site? It's about time proper portrayal of facts were made staple of the site's articles. Now go write! :D |
Yeh i agree with everything. nice one
Aquietguy said:
Good points. But at least they are trying do something about it. As for will developer make use of it, I don't see the problem with them having a control scheme for both in every game. It's not like multiple control schemes havent been done. Expecialy if your talking about the widely two analogs scheme. |
oh believe me, im all for that, especially since i HATE using touch screen for control cameras in certain games (looking at you Kingdom Hearts). People are just pissed because they already bought the system and might have to buy an addon, or afraid that a redesign is coming sooner rather than later. I have yet to buy one so im indifferent, IMHO, they just need to go ahead and redesign the damn thing. Sure the early adopters will be pissed, but its not that much of them anyway. I know that sounds selfish, but i think its there best option
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