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Forums - Gaming - Non-linearity in my opinion makes games better.

while I agree that mass effect, and in particular uncharted are 2 linear games.


There are different Classes in Mass Effect so, yes you have to kill everything, but you can kill in different ways. Like being a vanguard is quite a bit different than being an infiltrator, or soldier.

Would I like uncharted more if it was less linear? I don't think so, Despite my initial thought that it is trying to be tomb raider which has (Bigger Levels, Less Setpieces, better puzzles). I've changed that mindset. It's trying to be like a movie much like heavy rain, only with guns. And it does that better than any other videogame. And I think less linear makes what it's trying to do much more difficult.

 I do think less linear is ideal. But, the amount of resources required. Seems Higher. Also, less linear games have more problems with scripting glitches, and ai, graphics. Oblivion, Fallout, Grand Theft Auto, Deus Ex have some of those problems in some combination. Even in valkryia chronciles theres certain ways to abuse the ai. Granted some of them, are extremely entertaining.

http://youtu.be/GMOA8NhY9k8



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Non-linearity as you see it means only one play through for me. Games that allow me to explore every nook and cranny on my first play through like Deus ex do not give me any reason to play again. I take my time, reloading a save now and then to try different things and regularly back track to explore each level whole. A second faster play through would only diminish that experience.

Less linearity is nice, but usually over 90% of the content is exactly the same in each play through. The Witcher 2 is a welcome exception with 2 separate campaigns in chapter 2. Fallout NV was pretty good too in the last hours of the game. But I don't restart from the beginning anymore. I keep a save game to go back to a decision point and play the other path(s) along side.

Just playing as a different class or with a different weapon is not enough incentive to me. Last time I did that was with DA: origins. I did 3 full playthroughs to play out all the different paths. Getting through the dungeons started to feel more like work then fun in the end.

Shorter more compact experiences are much more likely to get extra playthroughs. Half-life 2, portal, portal 2, uncharted series, all great fun to play through again multiple times.

Anyway both linear and non linear games can be great. Terraria and portal 2 were both great this year at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.



kitler53 said:
mario is linear - i was under the impression that one was a classic.

in fact, i would argue that non-linearity largely makes a game less popular. the majority of the gaming audience needs guidance on how to play or they will get lost, confused and then bored, frustrated.


Mario never had toturials, hand holding and actually not linear at all, there are a lot of secrets and "shortcuts"

plus you can play the levels over and over.



Level1Death said:
PullusPardus said:

tl-dr version is i'm not talking about Sandbox/open world games so i recommend reading.

okay, so i've given a lot of thoughts on why exactly that i don't like what a lot of people love about popular games, like Call Of Duty, Uncharted, Gears of War, and before you just throw me down and show me pictures of how good uncharted looks and how so good is the shooting of Gears, or tell me i'm a fanboy blah blah blah, please, i'm going to try the best i can to not "insult" your precious games, i'm also going to make it much easier to read this by making comparisions so here goes!

one thing about a lot of popular video games that are highly regarded by games, is linearity, a lot of people talk about the storyline, the graphics, the campaign the online, but are missing an important factor here, nope, its not RPG elements, nor character interactions, or lots of sidemissions and content. and before you guess, NO! i'm not talking about gameplay , yup i got you, its not the gameplay in a sense. but its the linearity of the gameplay, or better yet, the ability of the game to be played over and over without it feeling the same or repetitive, for example! lets compare some games for better understanding, and i'll start with one of the dearest games around.

Uncharted series.

yes, to me the Uncharted series is never going to be a classic, why's that you-filthy-fucking-hipster-asshole-trying-to-get-attention you say? , well its because this game's replay value is very slim, the game is very linear, it hand hold the player a lot... or should i say all the time actually, for example, drake finds himself in a burning factory and you have to get out, so what does the game do? show you the exit and create an invisible hallway for you to just move forward and mow down everyone infront of you, you only  have one place to go, BUT thats not the only linear thing about it, you only have ONE way to do it, you don't have to think of way yourself, the game actually tells you how to do it, and THATS what i mean by linearity, now imagine you playing it again, it won't change. you will do the exact same thing you did last time, and if you play it again you will do it again and again and again, so the game is just one time play and just forget it exist and move on to the sequel, its NOT a classic, and once you play it you've played it, unlike for example Half Life which you can mess around with stuff, and can do a lot of stuff that don't involve one single mechanic.

Now this is common on other games like Gears Of War, Call Of Duty, Mass Effect,Assassins Creed....

Wait Wtf asshole how come you compare these games together? , they're not the same! , and WTF you idiot Assassins Creed is a sandbox , and Mass Effect has multiple choices to make! , its not linear at all!

Well to answer that last bit, Mass Effect is VERY linear, if you actually broke it down to pieces , like all bioware ganes, you find it actually very linear in it's gameplay, since the only nonelinear is the character interactions and conversations, the way you do the missions is always the same, either you pick whatever class, you still have to go from point a to point b, you can't stategize (Valkyria Chronicles) and thinking outside the box about how to accomplish the mission (Deus Ex)

But i also mentioned Assassins Creed, now thats a tricky game to explain since to most people being a sandbox game means its not linear, which isn't true, how? , you see in ass creed when you play you are actually put in city you are free to explore around and jump around, but when it comes to doing the quests themselves , the game becomes just another Uncharted/Gears/whateverlineargame, but thats not all! , Assassins Creed is very known for telling you EXACTLY what you have to do, like a mother hand feeding her child, you will have all these cool gadgets and gizmos that you want to use and manupilate, but the game forces you do to one thing because it thinks you you are dumb and can't think for yourself, its true that some missions offer a bit sense of freedom of doing things, but they all have a very specific way of doing it, UNLIKE for example the HITMAN series, you see that game, they never exactly tell you what to do and where to go , and where you do it, you just have to play around with stuff and with each time you play a mission you discover a new thing you haven't seen before because the game didn't say "HEY LOOK THERE IS SHIT HAPPENING IN THERE, ISN'T THAT FREAKING COOL!?!?!"

and thats about what i think about linearity, feel free to discuss, and sue/flame/troll/hatemeforlife.

OK

uh.... ?



SvennoJ said:

Anyway both linear and non linear games can be great. Terraria and portal 2 were both great this year at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.


Imagine portal 2 where the game is showing you how to solve the puzzles by moving the camera towards where you have to go, yeah thats how Uncharted games are, and thats pretty linear, Portal is not linear in a way you can do whatever way to solve a puzzle, you catch my drift?



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I agree with the OP. The holy grails of this gaming generation such as Uncharted, Gear of War and Call of Duty, for me they're interactive movies. An interactive movie has entertainment value too but it's limited.

About Assassin's Creed, I agree that its missions are linear and "dumbed down" but the overall freedom in the game, to just be able to roam around in the cities makes up a lot.

I very much dislike linear and lack of freedom.



PullusPardus said:
kitler53 said:
mario is linear - i was under the impression that one was a classic.

in fact, i would argue that non-linearity largely makes a game less popular. the majority of the gaming audience needs guidance on how to play or they will get lost, confused and then bored, frustrated.


Mario never had toturials, hand holding and actually not linear at all, there are a lot of secrets and "shortcuts"

plus you can play the levels over and over.


mario exactly meets your criterion, you move from point A to point B. let me quote you:

But i also mentioned Assassins Creed, now thats a tricky game to explain since to most people being a sandbox game means its not linear, which isn't true, how? , you see in ass creed when you play you are actually put in city you are free to explore around and jump around, but when it comes to doing the quests themselves , the game becomes just another Uncharted/Gears/whateverlineargame, but thats not all! , Assassins Creed is very known for telling you EXACTLY what you have to do...

if assassins creed is "linear" then mario is the absolute straightest line man or god has ever drawn.  if not, please provide me 3 methods by which i can get from one side of a pit to the other, let me get you started: 1. jump.  while you're at it, please provide at least two other ways in which a level can be beaten that isn't collecting a star or jumping on a flag pole depending on the particular mario game.

now in uncharted, i can run-and-gun, i can go for stealth kills, or i can make use of the cover system.  there are secrets to find to boot!  ...don't even let me get started on how you completely ignored the fact it has multiplayer as well.

but don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to argue that uncharted isn't a linear game.  it's just that the definition you provide cover almost every single game ever created.  any game that is truely a "game" has an objective which makes it a point A to point B system.  right now here are the exceptions i can think of: mario paint.  okay, i honestly didn't try that hard but there probably aren't much more even if i did try hard.

 

...but in the end, i don't care.  this is your opinion.   i'm not going to argue with you any further because your opinion isn't well formed.  you have games you like and games you don't and somehow scapegoated the difference on the word linearity.   as long as the basis of your arguement is founded on a rule that you don't apply to any game you like and find a way to force any game you don't like to apply then you just aren't worth the time to argue with.



Agree, complete lack of options is annoying. In the Uncharted series, the only real choice the player can make - and you can't make this choice every time, either - is whether he tries to kill some enemies without being noticed and then fights the rest. The other option is to rush into battle right away. In the end, you usually have to fight them anyway.

BioWare is a nasty one. They often have several paths but in the end, they're all practically the same and they never lead to different destinations.



It depends on the game, gameplay and story. Sometimes non-linearity makes games worse. It's a trade-off: for example i hate those wrpg's where according to the plot you have to fight an impending menace, but you can go on adventuring for years while the dark menace kindly awaits your return. It makes no sense story wise.



Hitman is the greatest stealth series of all time!

Have you seen Hitman: Absolution though? I've been reading the Hitman forums and they seem to afraid of the game becoming an linear action title instead a open stealth title. After reading preview & videos, they seem to be correct. That would suck if true.