@Player1x3:

Yet, I was specifically talking about its popularity between white males,, dont know why you brough up blacks,

You've actually bought no real proof that hip hop is extremely popular among white males. What makes you think it's more popular than say... rock! I was saying that the commercial success of hip hop music in the US could be due to black people listenign to that music, not white people.

@Player1x3:

Vietnam was in 60s and I was talking more about the lifestyle and culture American people had back than, rathern that the american politics

Those things were very important parts of American culture back then.

What things? Vietnam happend in the 60's, it wasnt important in the slightes to the american population nack in the 50's

I dont, my mom does. And I've seen some of the scenes from some of the episodes and how much of men men in Desperate Housewifes  really are. I mean, they might as well buy a whip for their wifes so they can strike them every time they disobey. Pathetic pussies

Their attitude actually causes them great relationship problems most of the time. You should watch the show more often. Currently, all of them (the women) are failing miserably at relationsips.

And because men are pussies of course. I heard they even gay characters and themes in the show. Can you beleive that ?O_O

I only wacthed Sex & City and i only did so back in young teenage years for sex scenes. I perfer shows like OZ, Prison Break and Rome

LOL, I started watching the show for the exact same reason. Were the promos oversexed over there too?

I dont know, but the woman I liked the most (Sharon) had the least sex scenes and wasthe least slutty of all 4 which made me stop watch it. Also, Jessica Parker was just an eye cancer to watch in later seasons

There is not a single holiday or any kind of traditional celebration in existance that embraces WHITES and/or HETROSEXUALS exclusevly.

All national holidays of a country embrace the culture of that country. For example, since France is a country where historically whites were the majority, and make up the main historical figures, all national it's holidays embrace the (white) culture of France.

No, your mixing stuff up again. When French celebrate, they celebrate the history of French country and thus its a celebration for ALL ITS citizens regardless of race. But in America you can see a lot of ''blacks only'' organisations and stuff like that. Like ''Blacks hisotry month'' , Million men march, and tons of other black privilages and traditional organisations in US. There are almost none for whites  (except maybe, KKK, which i am not sure fits the group) French celebrate the history of thier country, black minorities usually celebrate their race.French celebrate their nationality, not their race. Those 2 are very diferent. In the 1st all, all citizens can participate in (which is the mode you see in all western countries) and in the later, only the people of specific skin colour can.

And just a quick question. Following your logic, the whites in Sout Africa should definitevly have a pride parade, seeing as how they are a minority in a foregin country and how they are left out of traditional spheres of a society, right?

One word: APARTHEID.

Oh , oh, but they are minority in another country.They are left out of traditional speheres in the country.  Why arent they allowed to have thier pride parade? Just say ''its because they are white'' and save us both A LOT of time, dont talk about that apartheid bullshit, its gone for over 20 years now, dont use the reasons that are non existant

How about I birng up China than? There are dozens of cultures there beside the mainstream chinese one

I don't really know anything of 'dozens of cultures' being present in China. Where did you get that?

The fact that there are 52 ethnic groups in China other than Chinese?

What makes white Americans any different than other whites in the world. How does that chnage anything?

There is but a white ethnic group

I'm gonna treat these points together. There is no such thing as 'white culture'. There is no unity between white people. An American is an American, a Brit is a Brit, a Spaniard is a Spaniard. The reason why things like 'black culture' even exists is because white colonialists lumped all black people together based on their skin colour. Those in the US have had their identities totally erased, but in Africa you'll find as much unity amongst black people as you find amongst white people in Europe.

Than there shouldnt be no such thing as black culture either ( i am still under the impression we are talking about US only, right?) If blacks of America can have thier cultures celebrations and pride parades than so should whites of America, and yes we are talking about the single nationality here.

The reason why I was referring specifically to white Americans is because well, all white people in the world are different from eachother, and you have to judge is nationality individually.

So let us judge african americans only too, shall we?

Yet, I was specifically talking about its popularity between white males,, dont know why you brough up blacks,

You've actually bought no real proof that hip hop is extremely popular among white males. What makes you think it's more popular than say... rock! I was saying that the commercial success of hip hop music in the US could be due to black people listenign to that music, not white people.

Well the only kind of proof I have is ancedotal one. Thou I am sure there are some pols done on the net, im just not feeling like findind anything at the moment. I've seen white youth all over germany, austria, slovakia and france and their primary choice of music is always rap, and like Kazs said, this is well known in America as well. Maybe its different in Eastern europe, in Romania, where you live. In my home contry, things are much different either, only folk songs are still the most popular ones here

So just because you are sel loathing the whole world should be? Do you have any idea how this world would turn out if everybod would hate and be ashamed of themslefes? There wouldnt be any need for Hell, because we would already be in it. People shouldnt hate thier own race, much less their own species, they should be produ of what they are, regardless of race and nationality

There is no hell. Well, some places in the world can already be called that (Somalia for example). It's humans who create hell, and from what I'm seeing, it's usually the ones who are a little too proud in their race/nationality etc.

Hell has many definitions, im sure you mean the religious hell, and thats why you went out to say you strong opinnion of its non existance, but anyway, you hate Somalia too now? And the HUUUGE reasons for war are wealth and greed, those reasons far exceed the reasons of pride and nationality

What about the people that werent esnalved in African, instead in Europe?

What people were enslaved in Europe? And by whom? Europeans by Europeans? Gypsies by Europeans (like in my country)?

Well, how bout Greeks, Serbs, Albanians and Bulgarians that got enslaved by Ottomans? Or the Spanish that got enslaved by Umyadd and his forces in iberia? There are tons of examples, you just ignore them, because you think whites are generally more evil than any other race.

Well actually, most were made after then...

regardless, those contraints largey don't really exist anymore.

So you have to ask...  what makes a poor white person not worthy of help when compaired to poor people of other races?

Let alone say... races like Asian people who actually have the stereotype of being BETTER then average when it comes to inellegence.

It's easy to call such systems just when you look at things from the terms of trying to get some numbers of certain categories to line up....

but when you look at the indivdual people effected... it's harder to justify race based polcies.

It gets even trickier when you realize a lot of the people who benefit from race based scholarships are likely middle class or higher, because they are well... more prepaired for economic success since the scholarships just look for people of a certain race who are likely to succeed.

So you often end up with poor people not being able to get into college while rich or middle class people of another race get a free ride.  Are these scholarships largely helping black people rise up in society, or are they being largely used to seperate the Upper and Middle class of black people from the poor?

These reasons are why a lot of people prefer need based funding.  You get money based on your need, no matter who you are.

Probably just spending time in the US.

Not enough black people to push rap to the level of popularity it's at in the US.

In general actually the largest consumer of rap music is white suburban teens.

This is a fairly well known fact, at least in the US.

For example from a study

"His team is currently expanding its research to investigate how these and other rap videos may influence behaviors across other racial, gender and socioeconomic lines. Although gangsta rap videos depict tough inner-city "street" life, their largest viewing audience is white suburban youth, who have better access to cable television channels such as MTV and BET (Black Entertainment Television)."

If it wasn't for White Subrurban Teens the rap industry would be a lot smaller and less popular.

This is quite interesting. I actually find it quite an irony that white suburban teens, out of all people, are the biggest consumers of rap music. Has or will any study attempt to explore the reasons of why white suburban teens like rap music so much, what need/frustration it addresses?

There are a few theories... the big two are.

1) It's yet another way for suburban youth to "revolt" from their parents general wealth and culture as teenagers usually do no matter where you are.

2)  There are way more white people then black people, and CDs cost like $20 a pop new, so only people in the suburbs are going to be able to afford them anwyay, and not many adults like rap in general, it's mostly a young person thing.

For the record, I listened to rap a lot as a teenager in the suburds, why?  It was the right level of "active" music to listen to while doing stuff and sounded good.  It just fits perfectly with playing sports like basketball.

I mean, sure it's music mostly about being poor and black....

So what?  The main consumer of spy movies is non spies.  etc

As such, I think it's mostly a case of number 2.

1. Well, in some palces discrimination against gays is pretty much an ongoing reality. Such a place is Romania, where the overwheliming majority of the people think gays should be sent to prison (not kidding ,they actually made a poll on it). Heck, even in the US in some parts you'll get lynched if people elarn you're gay. And in most states it's legal to fire someone just for being gay. Then there's a lack of marriage rights, adoption (not 'understandable' either ), psychological torture etc.

And yes, atheists are also persecuted. This is the fault of christians, but we'll leave this for another topic.

2. If a majority group persecutes a minority group, the minority group needs special protection from the majority. Such attitudes (persecution) do not disappear overnoght. There's also the thing that pas persecution leads to current problems.

3. Sorry, I can't not fault them for that behavior. There are just things that regardless of the circumstances are wrong to do. And kids have no obligation to 'continue the bloodline'. Man, people who have kids are so selfish.

5. Well, the mainstream often is 'evil' and oppressive.

The thing about the 'shame' and 'guilt' is they're actually the words used by racists when denigrating people who are not racists. The point is to tell people that what their acestors did was wrong, and they shouldn't immitate them. There's nothing wrong with that, no?

And of course people should get along regardless of differences, but I wonder if the people who don't see that as something obvious can actually learn.

You also should not accuse former slaves that they 'would've done the same thing if they had the chance'. It's really baseless, and insulting.

6. Hey, I was just pointing out that it's a heterosexual celebration.

Nice, you're back.

1. Well, this conversation is long, so it's easy to forget a bit of the context, but I was talking about the reality in Brazil, and more specifically in well-urbanized areas.

And with all that going on in Romania, how the hell could you ever call this corner of the world backward?

About atheists, people at large have more problems with atheists than gays, so does it really matter whose fault it is? The situation is comparable.

2. The "special protection" should be based on the actual need of people not some part of the past or it creates stupid things like the situation being discussed with more scholarship for black people.

3. It's kinda built into the system you know. Passing your genes on and all that. But really, how can you not get that the sentence "Whose fault is it that the parents are following a hate-filled ideology that has nothing to do with reality" is pretty intolerant and filled with prejudice?

5. Bleh, the mainstream is usually the one with more means to be "evil". Just remember in most parts of the worlds the mainstream of today has once been the oppressed people in the past.

No problem in telling people what their ancestors did was wrong, but the focus should be on what was done and why it's wrong, not on the ancestors part, it shouldn't aim for shame. I do think people (well, in general) can learn to accept others, at least that has been the trend, hasn't it?

It's insulting to dead people? Or is it insulting to the people now because it insults their ancestors? Either way, it's surely not baseless. History shows that's most often the case, and it's specially likely when you had africans selling africans as slaves to the white men. It's a logical position.

6. How so if not only heteros, but also homos and bis are allowed to show their sexuality and take part in the thing? Sure you see more heterosexuals than otherwise, but there simply are more heterosexuals then otherwise. Carnaval is not about a sexual orientation.

Oh, about spy movies, it's not like the most popular raps are made by "gangsters", much less for gangsters and exploring genuine gangster issues. I wouldn't be surprised if such rap was considered stupid by actual "gangsters."