GT5 was actually in development for over 5 Years. Here. Words from Kaz himself. http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/113/1132522p1.html

"It took 2,000 days to get all the ideas that went into GT5. It's just too early to be talking about GT6." 2000 days is like 5 and a half Years.

Sure, they were also working on other things, but they were working on GT5 constantly from 2004/2005 at the same time.

Also, Forza 4 will have sold 4 Million by the time 2012 is over. Microsoft will bundle it. A lot. They do it with Forza. A lot. It's a great bundle to have in Europe, because Europe loves racing.

No. It was getting ideas for GT5... most of them implemented and tested in GT5:P or the Demo for new professional driving physics... ideas used/tested in others games.

They not begin to working/developing GT5 six year ago... just three-four years ago.

And GT5:P and the Demo were part of the development for GT5 itself.

I thought this was known by everyone.

So Turn 10 was working in Forza 4 since 2007/2008... ohhh no since Forza 1 and GT5 since Gran Turismo original .

I don't think the sim differences are as big as you're making it to be.  Forza is a sim, end of story.  You can make it more arcadey by turning on assists but at it's core it's designed as a sim racer, not an arcade racer.

The guys at Inside Sim Racing gave the physics in Forza 3 a higher score than GT5.

Pretty much what I thought when I saw ethomaz unreasonable attacks. That guy believes PS3 will be used to cure cancer in the near future. No doubt. B.E.L.I.E.V.E.

Ethomaz, how much Forza have you played exactly? Forza 3 is still a damn good simulator, GT5 is more advanced because well A. It's newer, and B. It's been in development for a bagillion years.

Forza focus's just as much on being a simulator as GT5. The main difference is Forza 3 hands you cars more easily, and allows you to alter the difficulty. GT5 has pre-set difficulties, if you want a gold, there is not easy way to get it. Also in GT5 cars are not handed to you as easily, and prize money typically buys you less cars, so there is more of a focus on tuning your car to win more races, where in Forza the focus is to drive more cars. This is why Forza is a better game, but a poorer simulator.

I mean the moto's of both games even back this up. Forza 3 "Drive your dream car", GT5 "The Real Driving Simulator."

Both franchises leak ideas off each other too.GT5 has a leveling system and a damage model now, just like Forza, and a lot of the principle concepts of Forza immitate GT.

Also regarding a post above, I don't beleive you when you say "just looks unrealistic to play a game like Forza 3 when you don't need to use the brake to make the curves perfectly." Both GT5 and Forza have their pro's and cons to being a good simulator. Forza has real time tire deformation, based off breaking force and bumps in the road. So drifting around IS more realistic in Forza. However GT5 does weight shifting better then Forza, so the cars reaction to drifting IS more realistic, along with braking.

Not one games is absolutly better then the other in any regards, and how the hell do you nail a turn without braking?

Finally both games can be looked at as arcade like. GT5 doesn't have Porsche (the most important car company), doesn't have damage till level 20, and on Cape Ring, your car will go flying to the point where in real life your suspension WILL buckle (especially heading into the ring).

In the end, the real arcade racer is PGR. Forza and GT5 play much differently from that.

If you add the sales of Forza 3 during the time of those bundles, Forza 3 sold about 3.5 million units (2 for ODST bundle, 1.3 for Alan Wake). Forza 2 sold 1 million units in the 3 months before it was bundled. If Forza 3 sold as well as Forza 2, that immediatly bring the number of bundled sales down to 2 million, but since Forza 2 was a July release and Forza 3 was October, I severly doubt that. Realistically Forza 3 sold 1.5 million units in the first 3 months on its own. As for the Alan Wake bundle, before and after Forza 3 was selling 20k weekly. Assuming it held those sales, and didn't go up in sales due to the holiday period, thats 400k natural sales. However holidays do boost sales, and an "Ultimate Edition" was released, where sales doubled the week of release. So realistically 600k or so units were naturally sold.

Do this math, Bundles actually added less then 1 million sales, but I was being lenient knowing most people would heckle me if I said otherwise.

Using the car analogy as well. Does it matter that Forza sells half as many games at GT? Is the Lotus Elise not a compeditor to the Porsche Boxter just because it sells less cars? What about the Masaratti Quatroporte compared to the Porsche Panamera, or the Aston Martin Rapide? Sales don't justify quality if you ask me.

No ethomaz. Even though the Forza 4 engine is based on the Forza 1 engine, it's not as if Forza 1 was a product of the Forza 4 development. If it were, all the cars, tracks, and features in Forza 1 would have been retained.

GT5 was in development 6 years ago (5 years before release), when PD announced they were developing GT5, and that they would completly rebuild the engine for GT5, throwing away all the data collected between GT1-4 (all cars were re-analyzed). GT5P was a product developed while making GT5, in order to satisfy the fan during the long wait to GT5. Every track and car from GT5P was retained, and well yea.

Even the definition of prologue affirms that it's the introduction to GT5. IMO it was a mass audience test of GT5's engine.

GT4P was released only a month before GT4, do you really think GT4 was entirely developed in 1 month? You're using this same logic for GT5.

Sales....no

Quality....of what I played of Forza 3 at my friends house I enjoyed it more than GT5.