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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - What is your honest opinion on the Forza Franchise? Compeditor to GT?

Vetteman94 on 16 June 2011
NotStan said:
trasharmdsister12 said:
naznatips said:

Jeeze I swear anytime I bring up something selling better than something else I'm totally attacking the other game with some venomous hatred.


And in the case of GT5 you might as well have pissed tobasco sauce into the eyes of the first born child of those on the defensive... and even then you may not get such an aggressive reaction.


Pretty much what I thought when I saw ethomaz unreasonable attacks. That guy believes PS3 will be used to cure cancer in the near future. No doubt. B.E.L.I.E.V.E.

But the PS3 is being used to cure cancer,  its called Folding@Home



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naznatips on 16 June 2011
daroamer said:
ethomaz said:
d21lewis said:
I haven't played a Gran Turismo since GT 3 (when I decided that I preferred Arcade racing over sim racing) and I've never played a Forza game outside of the demo.

I will say this. Turn 10 considers Forza competition for Gran Turismo because they wanted to launch their game head to head with it back in 2009. That's pretty ballsy of them. And many reviewers have come right out and said that Forza is the better game. Of course GT has legacy on its side. It's THE name in racing games just like how Mario is THE name in platforming. It didn't become what it is by sucking.

The reviewers said Forza 3 is a better game but GT5 is a better simulator.

What the focus of each game? That's my point... no direct competitors... different types of games... different focus.

I don't think the sim differences are as big as you're making it to be.  Forza is a sim, end of story.  You can make it more arcadey by turning on assists but at it's core it's designed as a sim racer, not an arcade racer.

The guys at Inside Sim Racing gave the physics in Forza 3 a higher score than GT5.

Yeah, but more thorough vetting of the games has shown Forza's physics are quite a bit off on each car from reality (check the Car and Driver breakdown). I agree, though, it's still close enough to be called a sim, and normal people wouldn't even notice, but genuine car enthusiasts tend to pick GT because it's as accurate a simulation of the actual handling and performance of each car as exists. 



snakenobi on 16 June 2011

they are both very much different

although forza tries to be gt,it jsut isn't

its way more easy and arcade like fun game not a simulator



themanwithnoname on 16 June 2011

I haven't played a GT since the first one, which was fun, but not for me. Now, since Forza has the rewind button, customizable difficulty levels, and helps with upgrading cars, I'll happily continue to buy it because I know I'll actually finish the career mode.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

Michael-5 on 16 June 2011
naznatips said:
daroamer said:
ethomaz said:
d21lewis said:
I haven't played a Gran Turismo since GT 3 (when I decided that I preferred Arcade racing over sim racing) and I've never played a Forza game outside of the demo.

I will say this. Turn 10 considers Forza competition for Gran Turismo because they wanted to launch their game head to head with it back in 2009. That's pretty ballsy of them. And many reviewers have come right out and said that Forza is the better game. Of course GT has legacy on its side. It's THE name in racing games just like how Mario is THE name in platforming. It didn't become what it is by sucking.

The reviewers said Forza 3 is a better game but GT5 is a better simulator.

What the focus of each game? That's my point... no direct competitors... different types of games... different focus.

I don't think the sim differences are as big as you're making it to be.  Forza is a sim, end of story.  You can make it more arcadey by turning on assists but at it's core it's designed as a sim racer, not an arcade racer.

The guys at Inside Sim Racing gave the physics in Forza 3 a higher score than GT5.

Yeah, but more thorough vetting of the games has shown Forza's physics are quite a bit off on each car from reality (check the Car and Driver breakdown). I agree, though, it's still close enough to be called a sim, and normal people wouldn't even notice, but genuine car enthusiasts tend to pick GT because it's as accurate a simulation of the actual handling and performance of each car as exists. 

When Forza 3 came out I watch an interview Turn 10 did with a few race car drivers who had their profiles uploaded to the games AI. Most drivers had lap times within 1 second of the lap tim they posted in Forza, and to be fair, playing in a racing chair with fake gravity and 3 tv's is still a lot different then real life. That's impressive.

I have also raced cars in real life, and I'll tell you both Forza and GT model real racing sitations well in their own way. With GT, I never feel my car go into a drift, but when I watch a replay of my times in a mid-engined car I'm always drifting. However with Forza I never feel the weight of a mid-engined car shift my car around, but I know it does it because when I pay attention to how I'm driving, I counter-steer.

Both are simulators, good ones, you really can't classify one as an arcade game, but not the other. I think it's damn impressive that Turn 10 built up such a great game with Forza 4 despite having a significantly shorter development period then GT5. They learned a lot from Forza 2, and I hope Forza 4 also shows the same massive step up with physics and graphics.



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Zlejedi on 16 June 2011

Sales diffrence to GT% doesn't matter that much.

It's like Uncharted vs Gears of War in the way that one provides counterbalance to system seller on other platform.



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

Carl on 16 June 2011
Michael-5 said:

If you add the sales of Forza 3 during the time of those bundles, Forza 3 sold about 3.5 million units (2 for ODST bundle, 1.3 for Alan Wake). Forza 2 sold 1 million units in the 3 months before it was bundled. If Forza 3 sold as well as Forza 2, that immediatly bring the number of bundled sales down to 2 million, but since Forza 2 was a July release and Forza 3 was October, I severly doubt that. Realistically Forza 3 sold 1.5 million units in the first 3 months on its own. As for the Alan Wake bundle, before and after Forza 3 was selling 20k weekly. Assuming it held those sales, and didn't go up in sales due to the holiday period, thats 400k natural sales. However holidays do boost sales, and an "Ultimate Edition" was released, where sales doubled the week of release. So realistically 600k or so units were naturally sold.

Do this math, Bundles actually added less then 1 million sales, but I was being lenient knowing most people would heckle me if I said otherwise.

Using the car analogy as well. Does it matter that Forza sells half as many games at GT? Is the Lotus Elise not a compeditor to the Porsche Boxter just because it sells less cars? What about the Masaratti Quatroporte compared to the Porsche Panamera, or the Aston Martin Rapide? Sales don't justify quality if you ask me.


Bundles really didn't add less than 1 Million to Forza. Seriously. Look at the actual charts, it's obvious and plain to see. When the Forza 3 Holiday '10 bundle was released, sales were spiked massively. 1.5 Million units added while that bundle was out, when the bundle stopped... Sales dropped again.

The ODST bundle. Again. Sales were spiked. It went from selling less than 20k weekly to hitting highs of 70/80k. It stabalised at around 30k for a few Weeks, when the bundle stopped... It dropped off the charts completely, selling less than 12k, if I remember correctly.

Forza 3 was hugely bundled. The bundled sales are somewhere between 1.5/2 Million units.

As for your analogy, if that's the case and we're just using it in a competing sense because it's another racing game... Then yes. It's a competitor. Just as ModNationRacers is on the PSP.



                            

ethomaz on 16 June 2011

Michael-5 said:

No ethomaz. Even though the Forza 4 engine is based on the Forza 1 engine, it's not as if Forza 1 was a product of the Forza 4 development. If it were, all the cars, tracks, and features in Forza 1 would have been retained.

GT5 was in development 6 years ago (5 years before release), when PD announced they were developing GT5, and that they would completly rebuild the engine for GT5, throwing away all the data collected between GT1-4 (all cars were re-analyzed). GT5P was a product developed while making GT5, in order to satisfy the fan during the long wait to GT5. Every track and car from GT5P was retained, and well yea.

Even the definition of prologue affirms that it's the introduction to GT5. IMO it was a mass audience test of GT5's engine.

GT4P was released only a month before GT4, do you really think GT4 was entirely developed in 1 month? You're using this same logic for GT5.

What did you undestand for 5 years development before release?

In these five years PD worked in: Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo HD, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Gran Turismo (PSP) and Gran Turismo 5... but forget that let's assume that they worked just in GT5.

GT5 = 5 years and 110 employees
F3 = 2 years and +300 employees

I can't see how people here thinks PD spended more time to develped Gran Turismo 5 than Turn 10 with Forza 3... the time is almost the same if you forgot the PD worked in others four games in parallel.

Or you think Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo HD, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and Gran Turismo (PSP) didn't use any bit of time from the development team?

The excuse that the game was in development for five years or more is ridiculous and a myth created by haters.



Carl on 16 June 2011
ethomaz said:

What did you undestand for 5 years development before release?

In these five years PD worked in: Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo HD, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Gran Turismo (PSP) and Gran Turismo 5... but forget that let's assume that they worked just in GT5.

GT5 = 5 years and 110 employees
F3 = 2 years and +300 employees

I can't see how people here thinks PD spended more time to develped Gran Turismo 5 than Turn 10 with Forza 3... the time is almost the same if you forgot the PD worked in others four games in parallel.

Or you think Tourist Trophy, Gran Turismo HD, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and Gran Turismo (PSP) didn't use any bit of time from the development team?

The excuse that the game was in development for five years or more is ridiculous and a myth created by haters.


Nobody is saying they just worked on GT5 in that 5 Years. They're saying that in that 5 Years, GT5 was constantly being worked on, despite other projects.

GT HD and GT5 Prologue were part of the development for GT5.

Yamauchi, the actual lead developer of the game, says the game was in development for 2000 days. Is he a hater of the game now or something?



                            

goforgold on 16 June 2011
ethomaz said:
naznatips said:
ethomaz said:
naznatips said:
Sales-wise? Sure, it competes. I'd argue it's even potentially MORE successful given how well it sells and how efficiently and quickly the games are developed. GT5 was a ridiculous waste of 6 years, not that the final product wasn't great.

As far as the games themselves, professional racing sim analysts have broken it down and it's clear that Forza doesn't really drive like a sim. It helps you out in a lot of ways automatically which the real cars would not, and thus is more fun for people who want something more arcady, while GT5 has those options all assists can be turned off and it becomes a real sim, with the most accurate physics in the genre. My one big complaint with GT5 (and it's pretty big) is I perfer to play in a realistic cockpit view, and it only has that view for 200 cars (most of which I don't care about).

Before says bullshit read here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4104999

GT5 not wasted 6 years to be made... PD make more than Turn 10 in the same time period.

Edit - I read your others  comments... even more bullshit... oh god.


Really dude? Really? You're going to argue that Prologue and HD are full game projects, equal to entire Forza games? A not-even-demo and a pretty large demo? Come on, I made it clear from my post I prefer GT as a game, but what you're doing is ridiculous. Stack the deck much? Again, I'm purely talking about the potential success of the franchises this generation, not a silly staff war. It is ridiculous for Poliphony to spend 6 years on GT5, and yes, it made a better game, I much prefer it to Forza 4. I'm simply talking about potential for the two franchises in total sales in the generation. Chill out.

C'mon guy... you are getting ridiculous... PD not spended 6 years in GT5... they worked in other titles.

And you read I saying GT5 will sell more than Forza 2 + Forza 3 + Forza 4.

jumping in on this argument......... you both do know that Turn 10 outsources A LOT of the work on Forza right????