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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sony have already won...

TWRoO on 28 December 2007
X-Man said:
lvader said:
Previous years profits don't count for much, Sony gaming division has lost a lot of money in the last 2 years and continue to do so. MS now make money from Xbox products.

Lol, of course it matters. MS aren't making money, they're making their money back. They're still billions in the hole. Sony are still billions up. And Nintendo are always making a profit.


I would like to see some evidence of how much profit Sony made with PS1.... because I believe Sony made about 2 billion with the PS2 (total profit, including all software etc) wheras they had lost 2 billion on the PS3 alone before it even launched (mainly due to the cell and blu-ray) ..... so between PS2 launch and PS3 launch Sony made as close to zero profit/loss as it matters in a business sense.... and since PS3 launch they have only lost money, Iam not sure how much in total but it will probably be between 0.5 and 1.5 billion.

PSP is currently profitable i think, but since it's own launch I doubt it has made anything significant, and is probably still at a loss.

So basically, ignoring PS1, they are at a huge loss with the PS brand. (almost certainly over 1 billion)

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MS lost about 3 billion I believe on the original Xbox (if anyone can correct me on this feel free... i am not sure)... and are probably at a loss with the 360 at the moment, even if it is now recently a profit.

 

edit... and no, the PS3 is not at 130 million if you are talking profits.... the 130 million that i think SOny has claimed happens to include a few million unsold PS2s (which will at least get sold) but also any PS2s that SOny had to replace... free of course... after failing under warranty, which was a lot of PS2s, (probably more that 360 RRODs even though the % failure may be higher for 360)



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mesoteto on 28 December 2007

this is a moot argument --you cant just cut out the top dog and say well...this guy wins



 

hunter_alien on 28 December 2007
lvader said:
Previous years profits don't count for much, Sony gaming division has lost a lot of money in the last 2 years and continue to do so. MS now make money from Xbox products.

 

At least thats what MS stated before the release of Halo 3 ... since thne they where pretty quiet ...


Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

X-Man on 28 December 2007
lvader said:
X-Man said:
lvader said:
At the current rate the DS will easily out sell the PS2 over it's life-time.

Isn't the PS2 at 130 mill still going strong? I don't see the DS selling another 70-80 mill. They'll probably pass the hundred mark though.


DS sales are still accelerating, it should sell 70-80 mil in the next 2-3 years.


 I don't see it. DS sales won't keep on accelerating. I expect the PS2 to sell another 15-20 mill before it dies. That's 150 million units. I don't think any console this generation will come near that. If the Wii manages to keep its momentum, maybe, but I don't see that happening either.   



gawalls on 28 December 2007

you say Sony has already won because they own Japan yet MS cannot win cos they own US... Hmmmm strange???



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"With the DS, it's fair to say that Nintendo stepped out of the technical race and went for a feature differentiation with the touch screen, but I fear that it won't have a lasting impact beyond that of a gimmick - so the long-lasting appeal of the platform is at peril as a direct result of that." - Phil Harrison, Sony

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Non Sequor on 28 December 2007
HappySqurriel said:
X-Man said:

If the war is between PS3/360, quite frankly, Sony have already won.

Looking back, the PS2 got the bulk of its sales from Europe (Others), not NA or Japan. At the rate the PS3 is selling, it will overtake the 360 in 'Others' by mid-08.

Japan is by far the smallest region but it's certainly not insignificant. Between the PS3 and 360, it pretty much belongs to Sony. The coming of games such as Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII will only further escalate the situation.

That only leaves North America. Microsoft cannot win this war with strong NA sales alone. Unless they can turn this around, they're destined to come in third.

As I see it, 08 is the make or break year for both Microsoft and Sony. And to some extent, Nintendo.

 

If you reply then please give reasonable and logical answers. And for the love of God, no fanboys.


When you actually consider that gamers have limited time and money, and developers have limited resources, these systems are still in competition with the Wii (and the Nintendo DS and PSP to a lesser extent).

Beyond that, the reality is that Worldwide sales numbers really don't matter. The world is not a single market, and each market buys games that suit their tastes; to a certain extent Americans and the "Other" regions buy similar games but there are still a lot of games which are more targeted towards one of the regions over the other.

The PS3 (realistically) doesn't gain much from their lead in Japan because Japaneese centered game development will be focused on the Wii and Nintendo DS. The European Lead will be unimportant because it is negated by the lead Microsoft has in North America and is limited by the ammount of European game development.


 This is an incredibly important point and I was about to bring it up. Winning in Europe doesn't really help much since most developers just view European sales as icing on top of sales in Japan or North America.

 It's actually possible for a console to get second place worldwide but still be weak enough in the two most important markets to lose developer support.

 I don't think it's a sure thing that the PS3 will catch up to the 360 in worldwide sales. There's still a gap of 7m between the two and I don't think the PS3 has ever outsold the 360 by more than a tiny amount. Even if the PS3 starts outselling the 360 by 100k per week, it'll take 70 weeks for it to catch up and before that 70 weeks is up, both Nintendo and Microsoft will definitely have more price cuts, slowing or preventing Sony from catching up.



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fkusumot on 28 December 2007
X-Man said:
 

I'm not talking about share holders, i'm talking about how much Sony has made from the Playstation brand. Software sales alone make up the losses from the PS3. And again, MS aren't making money, they're recouping. Nintendo are making a killing though.


 What? What is your source for this information?



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X-Man on 28 December 2007
TWRoO said:
X-Man said:
lvader said:
Previous years profits don't count for much, Sony gaming division has lost a lot of money in the last 2 years and continue to do so. MS now make money from Xbox products.

Lol, of course it matters. MS aren't making money, they're making their money back. They're still billions in the hole. Sony are still billions up. And Nintendo are always making a profit.


I would like to see some evidence of how much profit Sony made with PS1.... because I believe Sony made about 2 billion with the PS2 (total profit, including all software etc) wheras they had lost 2 billion on the PS3 alone before it even launched (mainly due to the cell and blu-ray) ..... so between PS2 launch and PS3 launch Sony made as close to zero profit/loss as it matters in a business sense.... and since PS3 launch they have only lost money, Iam not sure how much in total but it will probably be between 0.5 and 1.5 billion.

PSP is currently profitable i think, but since it's own launch I doubt it has made anything significant, and is probably still at a loss.

So basically, ignoring PS1, they are at a huge loss with the PS brand. (almost certainly over 1 billion)

------------

MS lost about 3 billion I believe on the original Xbox (if anyone can correct me on this feel free... i am not sure)... and are probably at a loss with the 360 at the moment, even if it is now recently a profit.

 

edit... and no, the PS3 is not at 130 million if you are talking profits.... the 130 million that i think SOny has claimed happens to include a few million unsold PS2s (which will at least get sold) but also any PS2s that SOny had to replace... free of course... after failing under warranty, which was a lot of PS2s, (probably more that 360 RRODs even though the % failure may be higher for 360)


I'd like to see some evidence that 'Sony made about 2 billion with PS2 total profit, INCLUDING software'. I'm curious as to where you get your information from.



Diomedes1976 on 28 December 2007

As long as the Wii users are casuals of the worst kind and third party software bombs in the machine the Wii will be a little more that a toy only Nintendo gets benefit from .

In that perspective the real "videogame " market is between the X360 and PS3 ,and PS3 will win sooner or later .

Not only userbase decides where development goes .If that were the case there wouldnt be ever any new generation because the new machines when launched (and along their first year usually ) get outsold by they older siblings .There are far more PC enabled to run games optimized for graphics cards along the 6800 models that after the 8800 .But ,this industry moves on technology and the new developments will be for PS3 and X360 ,thats where the fresh money will go .Wii will have its fun minigames ,gimmicky sports games and the likes along the Nintendo franchises and that will be all.Oh ,and quick cash-ins and shovelware of course ,its speciality .Thats pretty clear .



jlrx on 28 December 2007
X-Man said:

If the war is between PS3/360, quite frankly, Sony have already won.

Looking back, the PS2 got the bulk of its sales from Europe (Others), not NA or Japan. At the rate the PS3 is selling, it will overtake the 360 in 'Others' by mid-08.

Japan is by far the smallest region but it's certainly not insignificant. Between the PS3 and 360, it pretty much belongs to Sony. The coming of games such as Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII will only further escalate the situation.

That only leaves North America. Microsoft cannot win this war with strong NA sales alone. Unless they can turn this around, they're destined to come in third. 

As I see it, 08 is the make or break year for both Microsoft and Sony. And to some extent, Nintendo. 

 

If you reply then please give reasonable and logical answers. And for the love of God, no fanboys. 


This is great, im going to put a tape dispenser in a box and call it the roller 9000, then if we only count the sales of my roller 9000, it has already won the console war (I am pre-ordering it, so it sold out too). I love this kind of logic.