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Forums - Sony - Hacking Group: "It's the beginning of the end for Sony"

Torillian on 31 May 2011
Galaki said:
d0nni3 said:

releasing the security keys to the world

Note that it is Sony at fault here for using a freaking static master key. Even rookie should know better.


Sony may have made it easy, but that doesn't mean they're the only ones at fault.  Stealing candy from babies is easy too, and sure it's partially the baby's fault for not holding on to the candy with much strength, but it's also the thief's fault for being a dick and stealing candy from a baby.  Unless Sony posted the key on the internet themselves they aren't the ones at fault for what Hotz did.



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Kasz216 on 31 May 2011

Ehh... I mean... if the 9 or so security breaches haven't brought down Sony... I don't see how a 10th one that will probably just take out some obscure sony website would.

I mean... unless they can take down PSN again...

even then it wouldn't take down Sony so much as fuck over the company as far as cloud computing is concerned.



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
Torillian said:
Galaki said:
d0nni3 said:

releasing the security keys to the world

Note that it is Sony at fault here for using a freaking static master key. Even rookie should know better.


Sony may have made it easy, but that doesn't mean they're the only ones at fault.  Stealing candy from babies is easy too, and sure it's partially the baby's fault for not holding on to the candy with much strength, but it's also the thief's fault for being a dick and stealing candy from a baby.  Unless Sony posted the key on the internet themselves they aren't the ones at fault for what Hotz did.

A)  The problem with your analogy is that most babys can't hold on to Candy tigheter.  This is more like... a guy holding his wallet in one hand with his arm oustretched.  Yeah... it's still the persons fault for hacking it... not Hotz though... the people who actually hacked PSN.

B) http://gamepolitics.com/2011/02/09/kevin-butler-tweet-accidently-shares-ps3-root-key



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
NJ5 said:
brendude13 said:
NJ5 said:


Another one who thinks people don't have the right to hack stuff that belongs to them?

That has been discussed at length in other threads. I guess you belong to the team which thinks consoles still belong to Sony after they already sold them. So nothing new to argue about here either...

Pffft, you honestly defend piracy?


Read my post again... or any of the other posts I wrote in this thread. What makes you think I'm defending piracy?

General ignorance?  A lot of people seem to think hacking = piracy... even though that's specifically not the case.  I mean, I guess nobody knows anybody with an Iphone.

Something to consider is that... basically every consumer appliance you own today has firmware.  From your microwave to your freaking car.

Taking away the right to crack and modify hardware can lead to some SERIOUS issues.

One that already presnts itself with cars is that a lot of mechanics can't do work on new cars, because the dealers hold on to the firmware pretty tightly so you have to use dealer shops to get a lot of work done.

Heck sometimes they force you to pay to upgrade your firmware, to fix mistakes... they made in their fucking firmware!

Soon we'll get to the point where firmwares have "bugs" that crash on certain dates, and you have to pay subscription fees to update your firmware and make your products still useable.



NJ5 on 31 May 2011
The Fury said:

In this case it is about rights of a company because of my view on who owns the Software installed on a PS3. I can do what the hell I like to my physical PS3, I can take a baseball bat to it, shoot it with a gun, make sweet love to it if I really want and Sony can do nothing about it (of course maybe the UK Police might after they find out I own an illegal firearm or did something unspeakable). But a piece of software is not the same and has many more rules attached to it, you licence software in whatever form, you don't buy. This is why I see as what he did as wrong, it wasn't his software to tamper with and it certainly wasn't his master code to release. If he was a good person he would have told Sony about this obvious flaw, let them fix it with an update and never updated his PS3 so he can create all the homebrew he wants. Sony might have thanked him for that.

I'd presume he settled because of costs, his laywers would have said, 'You can't afford this or us, settle', Sony didn't want the added expence but were making a point. I'm a little guy and nothing Sony (the big bully) has done has harmed me, it's other 'little guys' who have.


I think your distinction between hardware and software is wrong, both from a personal perspective and the legal perspective. It is legal to reverse engineer and alter software just as much as hardware (as long as no copyright laws are broken by distributing the altered software of course).

If he was a good person he would have told Sony about this obvious flaw, let them fix it with an update and never updated his PS3 so he can create all the homebrew he wants. Sony might have thanked him for that.


That would be the common procedure in the security community for security flaws in server software, but not when it's just about a jailbreak of a gadget which doesn't put any data at risk.



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pablogers on 31 May 2011

as much as im pissed off with sony, i love them for all the good games of the ps, ps2 and ps3 era.. so this time im with sony as long as hackers mess with us: people that only wanna play games and be happy 



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
vlad321 said:
NJ5 said:
The Fury said:

While he didn't break the law he was still sued for harming Sony's products and potentially their profits which they are allowed to sue over.

If games are stolen because of piracy this is less money towards a developer which could easily put them out of business (Sony owned or not).

You don't think Apple would happily disabled any jailbroken phone if they could do it? Make it so that thousands of Apps don't get stolen every day? 

He was sued but that lawsuit didn't go anywhere (the settlement reached out of court was almost without consequences for Geohot). Sony can try to sue anyone, whether they're successful at it or not is a very different question.

Disabling access to Sony's network is a different matter, since that's not a guaranteed part of the sold product. Obviously people would get pissed off at Sony if they ended the PSN since it is advertised as part of the PS3 experience, but Sony is still allowed to restrict access to it.

Regarding the outright disabling of jailbroken products by Apple, I believe that would be a breach of the customer's rights and wouldn't hold up in court even if the "license agreement" theoretically allows them to do it.


Wasn't there that whole part where the Copyrights office allowed the iPhone to be hacked open and custom firmware and stuff allowed to be installed? I highly doubt that they would have sided with Sony on this issue.

Yes and No.

I mean... logically yes.

In practice... who the hell knows?

It's not legal judgements with technology have every been consistant.

I mean... the Judge in the Hotz case ordered that "Hotz should retrieve all the emails he sent out with the playstation key."

So... clearly that Judge doesn't even know how to use an Email account.

She later retracted that part of the ruling after it was explained to her how unbeleivably stupid a ruling that was.



The Fury on 31 May 2011
NJ5 said:

I think your distinction between hardware and software is wrong, both from a personal perspective and the legal perspective. It is legal to reverse engineer and alter software just as much as hardware (as long as no copyright laws are broken by distributing the altered software of course).

If he was a good person he would have told Sony about this obvious flaw, let them fix it with an update and never updated his PS3 so he can create all the homebrew he wants. Sony might have thanked him for that.


That would be the common procedure in the security community for security flaws in server software, but not when it's just about a jailbreak of a gadget which doesn't put any data at risk.

Did he not distribute the master code? Did he distribute customer firmware? If he did either of these he is in breach of those copyright laws.

The data at risk is in the form of software made and programmed by thousands of people the world over, whether it's the music contained within or the character designs. It's all contribution to a peice of work that could be stolen 'data'. This might not be data in the form of personal information on Joe Bloggs but it's still data at risk. Mr Hotz said he is against piracy, so he is surely security minded, he's contridicting himself by releasing how to pirate software on PS3 (even if he says it's for homebrew).



Hmm, pie.

brendude13 on 31 May 2011
NJ5 said:
brendude13 said:
NJ5 said:


Another one who thinks people don't have the right to hack stuff that belongs to them?

That has been discussed at length in other threads. I guess you belong to the team which thinks consoles still belong to Sony after they already sold them. So nothing new to argue about here either...

Pffft, you honestly defend piracy?


Read my post again... or any of the other posts I wrote in this thread. What makes you think I'm defending piracy?

"Another one who thinks people don't have the right to hack stuff that belongs to them?"

I believe you said this?

Unless they are using it for homebrew (which is very unlikely), they will be using it to pirate games and bring the Playstation Network to its knees...And you support this.



radiantshadow92 on 31 May 2011

what a bunch of dicks