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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo 3DS: The Failed Launch

loves2splooge on 20 May 2011
Tizona said:
loves2splooge said:

Nintendo is capable of fucking up. Look at the N64 and Gamecube. Not on the handheld realm before but there's a first time for everything. I find it amusing that the same Nintendo fans that defended the underpowered Wii are all over this stereoscopic 3D gimmick.


Sony said this in 2005 about the DS:

"With the DS, it’s fair to say that Nintendo stepped out of the technical race and went for a feature differentiation with the touch screen,” Harrison continued. “But I fear that it won’t have a lasting impact beyond that of a gimmick – so the long-lasting appeal of the platform is at peril as a direct result of that.”

I guess I just like gimmicks.

The stereoscopic 3D is way more alienating as a gimmick than the touchscreen though. There are a lot of people that can't see in stereoscopic 3D very well (this isn't just some small minority) and there are many more that get eyestrain/headaches/ill from playing with 3D. If you're not going to be playing with the 3D or you can't play with the 3D on very long, what is the point of a 3DS? Nintendo could have released a DS successor at a much cheaper price point without the 3D tech with $30 games (instead of $40) and it would have sold quite well. Nintendo is out of touch with the mass market. The mass market does not want 3D Ocarina of Time or Metal Gear Solid 3 or Star Fox 64 or whatever the hell us is supposed to be the savior of the hardware. The average DS consumer is very different from the average Nintendo 64 and Gamecube consumer (the type of gamers that make up the Nintendo subforum on vgchartz). The 3DS is going to lose a lot of DS consumers, and much of the expanded audience is going to get their "casual" fix from smartphones instead and some of the more dedicated gamers (particularly in Japan but also some niche gamers in the west) are going to defect to the NGP.

Obviously I don't expect you to accept the possibility that the 3DS is going to take a huge fall from the DS. I'm not going to convince someone with a signature full of Zelda stuff. Except for the small little Malstrom faction on here (who represents the oldschool Nintendo fan that thinks the N64/Gamecube sucked), the Nintendo hardcores are mainly out of touch with the mass market (see: Nintendo 64 and Gamecube). Even back in the GBA days, before the audience expansion, there were tens of millions of Nintendo fans like me that loved the GBA (which reminded me of the 8-bit/16-bit days) but thought the N64/Gamecube sucked (yeah it had some good games. But doesn't come close to the NES/SNES and Nintendo's handheld line). That's why the GBA sold like what? More than triple, almost quadrouple what the Gamecube did.



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Troll_Whisperer on 20 May 2011

All systems start like that.

That's why I always wait at least for the first pricecut of any system. By then it has built some library, and you can save some money. Otherwise you pay more to have less.



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

Troll_Whisperer on 20 May 2011
padib said:

The 3DS will fail because Sony rokks.

3DS gives headakes

3DS has a bad launch liberaaary

3DS sucks

andddd

3DS is for gayzzzz

and NGP is the best coz it dosint giv hedaks

Wow really strong points you have there...  :-/



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

Cheebee on 20 May 2011
padib said:

Aye meid a thnred in the vg chatats z and iat s tis taaaks abbut at  yyour r3 dfDS  succcsssssss s       s

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=128896&page=1

 

cAn u post! p[lz

Please stop.



Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

Cheebee on 20 May 2011
padib said:
Cheebee said:
padib said:

Aye meid a thnred in the vg chatats z and iat s tis taaaks abbut at  yyour r3 dfDS  succcsssssss s       s

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=128896&page=1

 

cAn u post! p[lz

Please stop.


As long as we're having fun I don't see why not...

Ah.. normality has been restored!

I know it's all in good fun, but it's still somewhat annoying after a while.



Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

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Tizona on 20 May 2011
loves2splooge said:
Tizona said:
loves2splooge said:

Nintendo is capable of fucking up. Look at the N64 and Gamecube. Not on the handheld realm before but there's a first time for everything. I find it amusing that the same Nintendo fans that defended the underpowered Wii are all over this stereoscopic 3D gimmick.


Sony said this in 2005 about the DS:

"With the DS, it’s fair to say that Nintendo stepped out of the technical race and went for a feature differentiation with the touch screen,” Harrison continued. “But I fear that it won’t have a lasting impact beyond that of a gimmick – so the long-lasting appeal of the platform is at peril as a direct result of that.”

I guess I just like gimmicks.

The stereoscopic 3D is way more alienating as a gimmick than the touchscreen though. There are a lot of people that can't see in stereoscopic 3D very well (this isn't just some small minority) and there are many more that get eyestrain/headaches/ill from playing with 3D. If you're not going to be playing with the 3D or you can't play with the 3D on very long, what is the point of a 3DS? Nintendo could have released a DS successor at a much cheaper price point without the 3D tech with $30 games (instead of $40) and it would have sold quite well. Nintendo is out of touch with the mass market. The mass market does not want 3D Ocarina of Time or Metal Gear Solid 3 or Star Fox 64 or whatever the hell us is supposed to be the savior of the hardware. The average DS consumer is very different from the average Nintendo 64 and Gamecube consumer (the type of gamers that make up the Nintendo subforum on vgchartz). The 3DS is going to lose a lot of DS consumers, and much of the expanded audience is going to get their "casual" fix from smartphones instead and some of the more dedicated gamers (particularly in Japan but also some niche gamers in the west) are going to defect to the NGP.

Obviously I don't expect you to accept the possibility that the 3DS is going to take a huge fall from the DS. I'm not going to convince someone with a signature full of Zelda stuff. Except for the small little Malstrom faction on here (who represents the oldschool Nintendo fan that thinks the N64/Gamecube sucked), the Nintendo hardcores are mainly out of touch with the mass market (see: Nintendo 64 and Gamecube). Even back in the GBA days, before the audience expansion, there were tens of millions of Nintendo fans like me that loved the GBA (which reminded me of the 8-bit/16-bit days) but thought the N64/Gamecube sucked (yeah it had some good games. But doesn't come close to the NES/SNES and Nintendo's handheld line). That's why the GBA sold like what? More than triple, almost quadrouple what the Gamecube did.

Can you give me a source on the "not minority" who can't see Steroscopic 3D or have eyestrain?  I just like facts is why.

Dude. Don't question my "hardcore" card. I'm a Nintendo guy yes, but I'm also an adult. I full well know Nintendo can fuck up, and that they have in the past. 3DS may not sell as well as DS. But you can't have the argument both ways that PSP is not a failure cause it sold alot, even if not as much as the DS, but if 3DS does not outsell DS, it is a fail. It's silly.

As for GBA selling more than Gamecube, First, handhelds have historically always outsold console for multiple reasons, not the least of them being general affordability. Second, Gamecube was not a great success, nor was it a great system, I agree. But do you honeslty want all the systems on the market to cater the "mass market" Isn't ok for one company to cater to a demographic, while another one caters to something different. I don't want your FPS' and WRPGS and race sims in my platformers and party games. If Nintendo went for the mass market, they would fail. Expecting a company to willfully go for a market they know they cannot dominate is not a well though out expectation.

3DS may or may not fail. I'm just asking you to let it do what it's gonna do, and try to enjoy if you want.

BTW: I think this has just popped my "Video Game Forum Argument" cherry. Thanks!



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Tizona on 20 May 2011
RolStoppable said:
Tizona said:

Can you give me a source on the "not minority" who can't see Steroscopic 3D or have eyestrain?  I just like facts is why.

Dude. Don't question my "hardcore" card. I'm a Nintendo guy yes, but I'm also an adult. I full well know Nintendo can fuck up, and that they have in the past. 3DS may not sell as well as DS. But you can't have the argument both ways that PSP is not a failure cause it sold alot, even if not as much as the DS, but if 3DS does not outsell DS, it is a fail. It's silly.

As for GBA selling more than Gamecube, First, handhelds have historically always outsold console for multiple reasons, not the least of them being general affordability. Second, Gamecube was not a great success, nor was it a great system, I agree. But do you honeslty want all the systems on the market to cater the "mass market" Isn't ok for one company to cater to a demographic, while another one caters to something different. I don't want your FPS' and WRPGS and race sims in my platformers and party games. If Nintendo went for the mass market, they would fail. Expecting a company to willfully go for a market they know they cannot dominate is not a well though out expectation.

3DS may or may not fail. I'm just asking you to let it do what it's gonna do, and try to enjoy if you want.

BTW: I think this has just popped my "Video Game Forum Argument" cherry. Thanks!

I don't agree with everything that loves2splooge says, but your arguments are quite absurd.

If the 3DS ends up selling only as much as the PSP in its lifetime, it can of course be seen as a failure and the PSP at the same time as a (moderate) success. Selling less than your predecessor is not a good thing and success is measured relatively to expectations, not an absolute standard that never changes.

Historically handhelds have NOT outsold home consoles. The Gameboy, including the Color upgrade, lasted for two home console generations, so that's maybe why you got that impression. The SNES and PS1 combined sold more than the Gameboy in the same timeframe. The PS2 outsold the GBA. That makes the DS the first handheld to actually do it.

Nintendo went for the massmarket with the DS and Wii, so how can you say they would fail if they did just that? It's actually the exact opposite. Whenever Nintendo attempts to cater to the socalled "hardcore" demographic, they fail. Just for the fact alone that the typical "hardcore" gamer is a male teenager or young adult who despises Nintendo. Take a look at video game forums on the internet. That is the "hardcore" demographic and you know which console manufacturer they think by far the least of.


The mass market things was me responding to this part of Splooge's post

"Nintendo is out of touch with the mass market. The mass market does not want 3D Ocarina of Time or Metal Gear Solid 3 or Star Fox 64 or whatever the hell us is supposed to be the savior of the hardware."

To me, and I think you Rol, the mass market ARE the ones who want to replay old games for nostalgia reason, and want gimmicks like 3d to show their friends. I agree with you Rol, that Nintendo is NOT out of touch with the mass market. Maybe I just suck at communicating that.

As far as sales, yeah, the super long life and multiple itertions of the GameBoy may have given me a false impression, so I could be wrong. Good point sir. But the DS and even the PSP have outsold their respective Console brothers and the Xbox.

I still don't think holding 3DS up to a "beat the DS or it fails" measurment is fair or accurate. People say the PS3 is not a fail, and I would agree with them, though it has sold VASTLY under the PS2. But to each his own!

Thank you gentleman for a most spirited debate.....sooooo....you guys wanna be 3DS friends?    ;)



LISTEN TO THE FIRST WORLD PODCAST REAL GAMERS, REAL AWESOME

Tizona on 20 May 2011
RolStoppable said:
Tizona said:

The mass market things was me responding to this part of Splooge's post

"Nintendo is out of touch with the mass market. The mass market does not want 3D Ocarina of Time or Metal Gear Solid 3 or Star Fox 64 or whatever the hell us is supposed to be the savior of the hardware."

To me, and I think you Rol, the mass market ARE the ones who want to replay old games for nostalgia reason, and want gimmicks like 3d to show their friends. I agree with you Rol, that Nintendo is NOT out of touch with the mass market. Maybe I just suck at communicating that.

As far as sales, yeah, the super long life and multiple itertions of the GameBoy may have given me a false impression, so I could be wrong. Good point sir. But the DS and even the PSP have outsold their respective Console brothers and the Xbox.

I still don't think holding 3DS up to a "beat the DS or it fails" measurment is fair or accurate. People say the PS3 is not a fail, and I would agree with them, though it has sold VASTLY under the PS2. But to each his own!

Thank you gentleman for a most spirited debate.....sooooo....you guys wanna be 3DS friends?    ;)

No, that's not what the massmarket is to me. The massmarket wants games to play with their friends, not to show off. The massmarket didn't play the games that were mentioned when they originally came out, so it's unlikely that they will want to play them this time.

I did say that the DS was the first handheld to do it.

It is fair to hold the 3DS to this measurement. Since its inception, the video games industry has continually grown, so any decline must be treated as failure (unless an unforeseen catastrophe happens). The people who say that the PS3 is not a failure are wrong, there's no way around it. It sold less than the PS2, it lost Sony a lot of marketshare and most importantly, it lost billions of dollars. Do you know what it means to call the PS3 anything but a failure? It means that no video game system ever was a failure and that certainly does sound wrong, doesn't it?

I still haven't taken my 3DS online, maybe I'll get around to it once the eShop launches.

My hope would be that some of the "mass market" that didn't play these games when they first came out, may not have even been gamers at that time, and so a few of them will come over to our side as real gamers or whatever the hell we who post on game forums call ourselves.

It seems like this (as with most arguments) boils down to what each person views as failure, and how we view the market as pieces and as a whole. I don't think we'll ever all agree, but it's fun to discuss. I don't agree with everything you guys have said, but seriously, if you get your 3DS online, I'm always up for a game....when they come out.



LISTEN TO THE FIRST WORLD PODCAST REAL GAMERS, REAL AWESOME

Tizona on 21 May 2011
RolStoppable said:
Tizona said:

My hope would be that some of the "mass market" that didn't play these games when they first came out, may not have even been gamers at that time, and so a few of them will come over to our side as real gamers or whatever the hell we who post on game forums call ourselves.

It seems like this (as with most arguments) boils down to what each person views as failure, and how we view the market as pieces and as a whole. I don't think we'll ever all agree, but it's fun to discuss. I don't agree with everything you guys have said, but seriously, if you get your 3DS online, I'm always up for a game....when they come out.

My hope would be that people like you would come over to my side and consider the massmarket to be real gamers. I am perfectly fine with these people never playing through Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64 or any Metal Gear Solid. These people still deserve to get games made for them. Games that they have shown that they want.


I'm really confused Rol. I agree with you I think. To me the mass market is everyone who plays games for the sheer purpose of fun and entertainment. They may play only Mario, only Halo, or only Just Dance, as long as the play games. Everyone deserves games to be made for them I don't see where we diverge in this. I'm totally against the so called hardcore/softcore crap. Gamers are gamers. There are those of us for who it is more than just a hobby, but we are no better than the other who just play because games are FREAKIN AWESOME.



LISTEN TO THE FIRST WORLD PODCAST REAL GAMERS, REAL AWESOME

Tizona on 21 May 2011
RolStoppable said:
Tizona said:

I'm really confused Rol. I agree with you I think. To me the mass market is everyone who plays games for the sheer purpose of fun and entertainment. They may play only Mario, only Halo, or only Just Dance, as long as the play games. Everyone deserves games to be made for them I don't see where we diverge in this. I'm totally against the so called hardcore/softcore crap. Gamers are gamers. There are those of us for who it is more than just a hobby, but we are no better than the other who just play because games are FREAKIN AWESOME.

I guess your confusion comes from assuming that every person who posts on forums must think of themselves as a superior form of gamer than those who don't. At least your previous post was worded in such a way. I don't know why, maybe you didn't want to offend me or others, although ironically you ended up doing just that. Yeah, I don't like this hardcore/casual crap either.

You are relatively new here, right? Well, let me tell you that you are on the right track. You aren't on my watch list of potential enemies for the future.


Ha! Good! I certainly wasn't trying to get on anyone's enemy list, I just like talking about games and shit.

I assume everyone who posts on forums about video games are perhaps a bit more passionate about games and especially the business of gaming, than most, but no superior. If that is wrong then...oh well.

Seriously, fun discussion. Can we  start calling people who aren't hardcore or casual, Softcore? I want to be a softcore gamer....sounds hot.

 



LISTEN TO THE FIRST WORLD PODCAST REAL GAMERS, REAL AWESOME