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Forums - General Discussion - being gay a choice vs born that way.

 

being gay a choice vs born that way.

It's a lifestyle choice 120 25.53%
 
Your born that way 250 53.19%
 
no opinion 36 7.66%
 
other---for anything I missed 62 13.19%
 
Total:468
psrock on 18 May 2011
Mr Khan said:
psrock said:

I just don't think we choose who we are attracted to, it's natural. And, why would someone decide to to be gay anyway in this hateful world? 

To be devil's advocate, why does someone choose to be an atheist despite strong anti-atheist prejudice existing in many circles? Or even better, nobody likes serial murderers or serial rapists, yet some people choose to become them.


Usually devil's advocate make sense. what is being gay, black, white, men, women have to do with the religion you choose or the path of life you choose. Being attracted to someone is not a choice, Did you choose to like women or men, you felt it, it came naturally. I didnt choose to be black although many people hate my blackness. 

People are gay, that's life, people need to learn to deal with it. 



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MrBubbles on 18 May 2011
sapphi_snake said:
thranx said:

I think he is saying being effeminate bothers him. It bothers me too. I know plenty of gay people and none them act effeminate. Its weird and off putting. I dont like it either.

And what's the problem with being effeminate?


if i want to fuck women, i'll fuck women.  if i want to fuck men, i'll fuck men.  imo, effeminate men are definitely not the best of both worlds,  just a butchery of both.



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thranx on 18 May 2011
S____M____C____C said:
sapphi_snake said:
S____M____C____C said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:

If this were true, then there would be no homosexuals (actually, there would be no individuality, or behavioral differences between people for that matter).

Ever heard of place called California?

There are no homosexuals in California?

on the original point, no two people have the exact same surroudings and upbringing (environment), so of course there will be homosexuals and individuality

But there are people who have the exact same upbringing and sorroudings, yet wind up being totally different in many aspects. Your point still fails.

not really. across all psychology a lot of behaviour comes from our environment. homosexuality almost definitely has something to do with self-scheme and environment imo.

for example i would say that men who possess more of/stronger characteristics of: being protective, mature, serious etc are more likely to be straight

men who are more party animal, live in the moment, banterous, fashion conscious etc are more likely to be gay

yes it's stereotypical, but c'mon. we all know gay guys are more likely to be in designer clothes with their hair styled to the side and all. If someone says 'gay guy' to you, what do you think of? That schema comes from real life experience

what are you on about? Sterotyping is all I see in your post. If you can't see that you need to see far more of the world. I dont know a single gay who is into designer clothes or fashion. I mean your post is just full of fail.



thranx on 18 May 2011
psrock said:

I just don't think we choose who we are attracted to, it's natural. And, why would someone decide to to be gay anyway in this hateful world? 


No kids to worry about. You can play sports with the same person you have sex with. More common interest. The sex is better? I am sure there are other reasons. Me not being gay I wouldn't know them.



Kantor on 18 May 2011
Smidlee said:
Kantor said:
izaaz101 said:

Like most things, a bit of nature and a bit of nurture.

I'm not sure I understand how that works.

Who nurtures a child to be gay? In fact, the opposite is true. There is an enormous stigma against homosexuality in modern society. The fact that there are still gay people (and indeed, that there were when it was punishable by death) pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't a choice.

The same logic can be applied to serial killers. Who nurtures a child to be a serial killer? The fact there are still serial killers proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't a choice. 

 Thus be very careful using that logic.

I would say that nine of of ten serial killers have serious mental problems. So yes, that would have been there from birth.

As for crime in general, there are, unfortunately, children who are brought up to be criminals.



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sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
nightsurge said:
sapphi_snake said:
nightsurge said:
sapphi_snake said:
nightsurge said:

Why no option for Both?  I think in some circumstances it could be an imballance in the body or other alteration that you have from birth, while in other circumstances I am sure it is still entirely a choice.

Can you CHOOSE to be attracted to someone?

Yes... can't you?  Just as I can choose to be not attracted to someone for various reasons.

Especially in the situation where people are bi-sexual. Clearly they have a choice there in which they would rather be with at the time, or they can still choose both lol

Well, I can keep staring at Rosie O'Donnel, but man no matter how much I want to, I just can't find her attractive.I think you (like many people) confuse ATTRACTION with ACTION. Sure, I could CHOOSE to hit on Rosio O'Donnel, put a condom on, and rock her world while thinking I'm doing Angelina Jolie. However I cannot CHOOSE to be ATTRACTED to her.

Bisexuals do have a choice of which gender to pursue, but they themselves cannot CHOOSE to be ATTRACTED to someone.

So you are saying that people can never have a choice in who they are attracted to? That sounds utterly chaotic and quite frankly terrifying. I like to make my own decisions, not have fate or some birth genetics determine it for me.  People can be straight their whole lives and for example, a man can get tired of cheating/crazy women and give guys a try or vice versa. That right there is clearly a choice.

Just as I can very easily hangout with extremely "attractive" females as a straight male and have no urge to reproduce with them. That's because who I like is my choice and is determined by many variables that I myself decided.

Yes, but the choice is to go out with men, not be attracted to them. Dating someone is a choice, attraction is not a choice.

As for your second paragraph, you still find those females to be "attractive", don't you? Not to mention that attraction is itself something subjective (no matter how "attractive" someone may be considered by most, there will always be someone who doesn't find them attractive). You just can't seem to understand the difference of ATTRACTION (what we're talking about, which is not a choice) and ACTION (which is a choice).

Attraction is like tasting food. And people usually only eat the kind of food who's taste they like. If I don't like the taste of something, I can still force myself to eat it, but I'll probably end up vomiting. It's the same with sexual attraction.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

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sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Kantor said:
izaaz101 said:

Like most things, a bit of nature and a bit of nurture.

I'm not sure I understand how that works.

Who nurtures a child to be gay? In fact, the opposite is true. There is an enormous stigma against homosexuality in modern society. The fact that there are still gay people (and indeed, that there were when it was punishable by death) pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't a choice.

Actually, what it proves is that nurture isn't the cause.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Troll_Whisperer said:
sapphi_snake said:
ps3_jrpg_gamer said:

whether  someone born this way or not the sure is that society will make him feel GUILTY 

That 's the whole point

even the fact that a thread like this exists 

what is gay ? some kind of science fiction craziness that needs analyzing ?

A category created in the 19th century for the repression and the control of people's sexuality. It was mainly created so those that call themselves "heterosexuals" could gain power over those they labeled as "homosexual".

Further reading: The History of Sexuality, vol. 1 by Michel Foucault

Proper Harvard referencing or nothing.

Then don't read it then.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
MrBubbles said:
sapphi_snake said:
thranx said:

I think he is saying being effeminate bothers him. It bothers me too. I know plenty of gay people and none them act effeminate. Its weird and off putting. I dont like it either.

And what's the problem with being effeminate?


if i want to fuck women, i'll fuck women.  if i want to fuck men, i'll fuck men.  imo, effeminate men are definitely not the best of both worlds,  just a butchery of both.

Are you coming out as bisexual?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 18 May 2011
Smidlee said:

@nightsurge

 There are some people who don't believe in free-will and you do what you do because that's how you are "programmed". Of course the danger of this would be to ask do serial killers have a choice or are they just born or "programmed" that way.

We're not talking about actions, we're talking about feelings. Attraction is a feeling, not an action. Can you CHOOSE to be attracted to someone? (as in, can you look at a dirty ugly fat woman and make yourself feel aroused by her? - or, if you actually find such people attractive, just picture someone you don't find attractive and see if you can make yourself become attracted to them)

As for the serial killer, I doubt that they're such an umiform category. Each case is different. Some of them have mental problems (obviously not their choice), some of them may do it because they're evil (who knows, maybe such people exist). Regardless, killing someone isn't a justifiable action, regardless of the reason it's done. However, the people who are crazy should be sent to mental institutions as, unlike those who are not crazy, they didn't consciously choose to act the way they did.

The thing is that, regardless of what makes someone be attracted to people of the same sex, homosexual sex isn't something that can be considered objectively wrong (such as murder), therefore there is no logical reason why people should be ostracized for practicing it.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)