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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 Trades increased by 200% since PSN crash

awesomeX10 on 13 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:

Except... you don't.  You seem to have zero actual technological knowledge and are just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Opening up your system like that, doesn't open you up to hackers or piracy at all.  It's like you don't understand how hacking works.

You don't control the servers you don't control the security and since your psn account has to link you all it makes everything more vulnerable, increases exploits and leads to piracy it's a stupid idea on a closed system, on pc your accounts are seperate for each game


Question have you played on Steam before?  Just wondering cause then you'd know that your post is just simply not true and well most of your posts would be negated if you knew anything about the service, cause it is both open AND allows you to have uniform name and account that saves all your achievements as well as having cross game voice chat, chat rooms, and the like, and able to use the web while in game... and yet I can still choose to use a custom server if I feel like it, hell Steam gives me the tools to operate one properly and I can use my PC to host, there really isn't any excuse to leave a service closed since I'm more likely to find hackers in game getting away with hacking in a console game than on private servers run by dedicated players.

No1 is going to host dedicated servers for consoles games which like you said is p2p in game and like I already pointed out having every company have their own servers for the waiting rooms and matchmaking or whatever is a bad idea 


Except... the reasons you've pointed out were complete fiction and seemingly based on no understanding of how hackers work.  Private servers don't open you up to hackers.  You don't use servers to hack.

It doesn't open you up to piracy either.  At best it allows people who do pirate, to play on pirated servers... but it doesn't make it any easier to pirate.

Nothing would change in sony's anti-piracy moves.

I said cheating and exploits and Sony is fighting against pirates why let them have a place where they can play in peace? and you have yet to address any of my points on the p2p games which is the vast majority which need servers for waiting rooms 


Yes... and cheating and exploits work EXACTLY the same way on PS3 as they do on PC.  There is zero difference.  PSN provides zero extra protection.

Well actually i take that back.  On PC developers can immediatly patch their games.  While on PSN and Xbox live developers have to go through a quere so it takes weeks longe to patch.

Also no... P2p games don't need "waiting rooms".  They need a master server list.  Which is a totally different thing... that the console providers already provide.

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction 



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Kasz216 on 13 May 2011
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:

Except... you don't.  You seem to have zero actual technological knowledge and are just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Opening up your system like that, doesn't open you up to hackers or piracy at all.  It's like you don't understand how hacking works.

You don't control the servers you don't control the security and since your psn account has to link you all it makes everything more vulnerable, increases exploits and leads to piracy it's a stupid idea on a closed system, on pc your accounts are seperate for each game


Question have you played on Steam before?  Just wondering cause then you'd know that your post is just simply not true and well most of your posts would be negated if you knew anything about the service, cause it is both open AND allows you to have uniform name and account that saves all your achievements as well as having cross game voice chat, chat rooms, and the like, and able to use the web while in game... and yet I can still choose to use a custom server if I feel like it, hell Steam gives me the tools to operate one properly and I can use my PC to host, there really isn't any excuse to leave a service closed since I'm more likely to find hackers in game getting away with hacking in a console game than on private servers run by dedicated players.

No1 is going to host dedicated servers for consoles games which like you said is p2p in game and like I already pointed out having every company have their own servers for the waiting rooms and matchmaking or whatever is a bad idea 


Except... the reasons you've pointed out were complete fiction and seemingly based on no understanding of how hackers work.  Private servers don't open you up to hackers.  You don't use servers to hack.

It doesn't open you up to piracy either.  At best it allows people who do pirate, to play on pirated servers... but it doesn't make it any easier to pirate.

Nothing would change in sony's anti-piracy moves.

I said cheating and exploits and Sony is fighting against pirates why let them have a place where they can play in peace? and you have yet to address any of my points on the p2p games which is the vast majority which need servers for waiting rooms 


Yes... and cheating and exploits work EXACTLY the same way on PS3 as they do on PC.  There is zero difference.  PSN provides zero extra protection.

Well actually i take that back.  On PC developers can immediatly patch their games.  While on PSN and Xbox live developers have to go through a quere so it takes weeks longe to patch.

Also no... P2p games don't need "waiting rooms".  They need a master server list.  Which is a totally different thing... that the console providers already provide.

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

The only defense live and PSN have is not being competant PCs.

In every other way, it's actually HARDER to implement good anti-exploiting measures.

I've actually ran into just as much cheating in multiplayer on consoles as i have PC.



awesomeX10 on 13 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:

Except... you don't.  You seem to have zero actual technological knowledge and are just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Opening up your system like that, doesn't open you up to hackers or piracy at all.  It's like you don't understand how hacking works.

You don't control the servers you don't control the security and since your psn account has to link you all it makes everything more vulnerable, increases exploits and leads to piracy it's a stupid idea on a closed system, on pc your accounts are seperate for each game


Question have you played on Steam before?  Just wondering cause then you'd know that your post is just simply not true and well most of your posts would be negated if you knew anything about the service, cause it is both open AND allows you to have uniform name and account that saves all your achievements as well as having cross game voice chat, chat rooms, and the like, and able to use the web while in game... and yet I can still choose to use a custom server if I feel like it, hell Steam gives me the tools to operate one properly and I can use my PC to host, there really isn't any excuse to leave a service closed since I'm more likely to find hackers in game getting away with hacking in a console game than on private servers run by dedicated players.

No1 is going to host dedicated servers for consoles games which like you said is p2p in game and like I already pointed out having every company have their own servers for the waiting rooms and matchmaking or whatever is a bad idea 


Except... the reasons you've pointed out were complete fiction and seemingly based on no understanding of how hackers work.  Private servers don't open you up to hackers.  You don't use servers to hack.

It doesn't open you up to piracy either.  At best it allows people who do pirate, to play on pirated servers... but it doesn't make it any easier to pirate.

Nothing would change in sony's anti-piracy moves.

I said cheating and exploits and Sony is fighting against pirates why let them have a place where they can play in peace? and you have yet to address any of my points on the p2p games which is the vast majority which need servers for waiting rooms 


Yes... and cheating and exploits work EXACTLY the same way on PS3 as they do on PC.  There is zero difference.  PSN provides zero extra protection.

Well actually i take that back.  On PC developers can immediatly patch their games.  While on PSN and Xbox live developers have to go through a quere so it takes weeks longe to patch.

Also no... P2p games don't need "waiting rooms".  They need a master server list.  Which is a totally different thing... that the console providers already provide.

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

the exploits and the cheating I was talking about dedicated servers the p2p ones I was talking about easier to hack the individual servers and increased downtime all around and easier to hack psn accounts because they just need to use the weakest server, stop mixing up my arguments 

C. complete bull I see dozens of hackers everytime I try to play a game online it's pathetic one of the main reasons I don't play pc games often



MaxwellGT2000 on 13 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:

Except... you don't.  You seem to have zero actual technological knowledge and are just argueing for the sake of argueing.

Opening up your system like that, doesn't open you up to hackers or piracy at all.  It's like you don't understand how hacking works.

You don't control the servers you don't control the security and since your psn account has to link you all it makes everything more vulnerable, increases exploits and leads to piracy it's a stupid idea on a closed system, on pc your accounts are seperate for each game


Question have you played on Steam before?  Just wondering cause then you'd know that your post is just simply not true and well most of your posts would be negated if you knew anything about the service, cause it is both open AND allows you to have uniform name and account that saves all your achievements as well as having cross game voice chat, chat rooms, and the like, and able to use the web while in game... and yet I can still choose to use a custom server if I feel like it, hell Steam gives me the tools to operate one properly and I can use my PC to host, there really isn't any excuse to leave a service closed since I'm more likely to find hackers in game getting away with hacking in a console game than on private servers run by dedicated players.

No1 is going to host dedicated servers for consoles games which like you said is p2p in game and like I already pointed out having every company have their own servers for the waiting rooms and matchmaking or whatever is a bad idea 


Except... the reasons you've pointed out were complete fiction and seemingly based on no understanding of how hackers work.  Private servers don't open you up to hackers.  You don't use servers to hack.

It doesn't open you up to piracy either.  At best it allows people who do pirate, to play on pirated servers... but it doesn't make it any easier to pirate.

Nothing would change in sony's anti-piracy moves.

I said cheating and exploits and Sony is fighting against pirates why let them have a place where they can play in peace? and you have yet to address any of my points on the p2p games which is the vast majority which need servers for waiting rooms 


Yes... and cheating and exploits work EXACTLY the same way on PS3 as they do on PC.  There is zero difference.  PSN provides zero extra protection.

Well actually i take that back.  On PC developers can immediatly patch their games.  While on PSN and Xbox live developers have to go through a quere so it takes weeks longe to patch.

Also no... P2p games don't need "waiting rooms".  They need a master server list.  Which is a totally different thing... that the console providers already provide.

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

 


Pretty much this, you'll never get rid of a hacker mid game on PSN, XBL, or on Wii but with open servers like I said before there are often people actively on the server to prevent hacking so if someone is using aimbot for example they're gone before they can cause major damage to the match and unlike the other services you don't simply leave the match to avoid said hacker.

Having a game on open servers has nothing to do with the actual hacks as pointed out it only allows for some people to play on servers with these hacks enabled, how is this a bad thing?  Hackers get to play their modified games TOGETHER while people who want a strict watch can play on official or private servers, thus it makes everyone happy instead of being a halfassed fix like getting a patch weeks later or taking a month for a report to process when you complain to Sony who often times (first hand experience, and their list of games isn't even up to date I was trying to report a cheater on Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 and they only had the original) tell you to contact the developers rather than them... when the developers don't even have a way to report hackers on their games.

Seriously there is not a single way opening up the system doesn't help the consumer and yes even Sony in the long run.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Kasz216 on 13 May 2011
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

the exploits and the cheating I was talking about dedicated servers the p2p ones I was talking about easier to hack the individual servers and increased downtime all around and easier to hack psn accounts because they just need to use the weakest server, stop mixing up my arguments 

C. complete bull I see dozens of hackers everytime I try to play a game online it's pathetic one of the main reasons I don't play pc games often

Er.  All of those statements are cattegorically false.

A.Exploits and cheating detection aren't any different on dedicated servers.  Outside the fact that you now autheticate vs the server. 

B.  Why would it be easier to hack individual servers, when individual servers are never hacked?  There is literally no reason to actually hack a server.

B2) Why would it be easier to hack PSN accounts?  Again, I don't think you know how that works either.

C. Are you one of those people who accuses everyone better then you of hacking? 

 

I think the problem we're having here is that you keep trying to argue something that you literally don't know anything about.  Not in the "you have a wrong opinion" sense... but in the "you don't seem to understand how things work" sense.



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Kasz216 on 13 May 2011
trasharmdsister12 said:

@Kasz

I thought you were an Xbot earlier this week... since when were you a PC Elitist? If I could make such a request, can you be a dsistroll tomorrow?

I have no clue what a dsistroll is... but yeah... there isn't a system i haven't been accused of being a "Fanboy" of.  This is largely because I'm actually not a fanboy of any of them... mostly because they all have issues.

Xbox fanboy always is the funniest one though... party because I never use my Xbox... and partly because it seems to be called out on someone for basically "saying something true, but negative about a console not the 360, even if the 360 is never mentioned."



MaxwellGT2000 on 13 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
trasharmdsister12 said:

@Kasz

I thought you were an Xbot earlier this week... since when were you a PC Elitist? If I could make such a request, can you be a dsistroll tomorrow?

I have no clue what a dsistroll is... but yeah... there isn't a system i haven't been accused of being a "Fanboy" of.  This is largely because I'm actually not a fanboy of any of them... mostly because they all have issues.

Xbox fanboy always is the funniest one though... party because I never use my Xbox... and partly because it seems to be called out on someone for basically "saying something true, but negative about a console not the 360, even if the 360 is never mentioned."


Haha I've still yet to be called a PC elitist, been called a fanboy of everything else though for the same reasons as you.  



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

awesomeX10 on 13 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
 

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

the exploits and the cheating I was talking about dedicated servers the p2p ones I was talking about easier to hack the individual servers and increased downtime all around and easier to hack psn accounts because they just need to use the weakest server, stop mixing up my arguments 

C. complete bull I see dozens of hackers everytime I try to play a game online it's pathetic one of the main reasons I don't play pc games often

Er.  All of those statements are cattegorically false.

A.Exploits and cheating detection aren't any different on dedicated servers.  Outside the fact that you now autheticate vs the server. 

B.  Why would it be easier to hack individual servers, when individual servers are never hacked?  There is literally no reason to actually hack a server.

B2) Why would it be easier to hack PSN accounts?  Again, I don't think you know how that works either.

C. Are you one of those people who accuses everyone better then you of hacking? 

 

I think the problem we're having here is that you keep trying to argue something that you literally don't know anything about.  Not in the "you have a wrong opinion" sense... but in the "you don't seem to understand how things work" sense.

Gaming networks were litterally never hacked a month ago, the problem here is just you assuming things like usual and when everything is linked all you need to do is get in the weakest link to get into the whole thing, invidual servers are easier to hack people just haven't besides like you said they haven't seen a reason but sooner or later someone will always make up a reason and be a jerk so thats why I don't think you're as knowledgeable as you claim if you miss these incredibly obvious facts 



Rath on 13 May 2011

While I have no doubt this is true to an extent, the evidence is still anecdotal.

 

I still agree with Sony's decision to keep PSN down until they're sure it's secure. While it being down is very bad for their image, being hacked again would be catastrophic. I also get the feeling they're going to encrypt more stuff this time around.



Kasz216 on 13 May 2011
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
Kasz216 said:
awesomeX10 said:
 

p2p games still need a server of some kind and cheating and exploits are a hell of alot more common on pc, just look at diablo 2, I don't know where you get the idea that cheating is less on pc but that is pure fiction

Right, PSN does not provide that.

Here is a serious question.  Do you know how cheat and exploit security works?

Say we are playing a P2P game.  Say, you are running an Aimbot.  My game connects to your game, and our games trade files to make sure that both of us are running unmodified files.

That's it.  It has NOTHING to do with PSN.  It's all based completely on game developers releasing patches.

I mean, that's why cheating is so bad on COD.  Activision said "you know what... fuck it."

 

As for hacking on PC.  You seem to be missing a few important points.

A) Exploits are made on a PC.   To hack a PS3 or 360 game you are probably dumping the ISO on your computer.  If you are going to do this, you may as well bought the PC game.

B) PC gamers are generally more knowledgable about how games work.  Therefore ablet to hack.

C) PC gamers can deal with hackers eaiser... so they are zero problem.  Hackers get banned withing a minute or occurence, and thefore hacking is very rare in anything competitive.  Versus console, where it takes months to catch up with an expoiter.

the exploits and the cheating I was talking about dedicated servers the p2p ones I was talking about easier to hack the individual servers and increased downtime all around and easier to hack psn accounts because they just need to use the weakest server, stop mixing up my arguments 

C. complete bull I see dozens of hackers everytime I try to play a game online it's pathetic one of the main reasons I don't play pc games often

Er.  All of those statements are cattegorically false.

A.Exploits and cheating detection aren't any different on dedicated servers.  Outside the fact that you now autheticate vs the server. 

B.  Why would it be easier to hack individual servers, when individual servers are never hacked?  There is literally no reason to actually hack a server.

B2) Why would it be easier to hack PSN accounts?  Again, I don't think you know how that works either.

C. Are you one of those people who accuses everyone better then you of hacking? 

 

I think the problem we're having here is that you keep trying to argue something that you literally don't know anything about.  Not in the "you have a wrong opinion" sense... but in the "you don't seem to understand how things work" sense.

Gaming networks were litterally never hacked a month ago, the problem here is just you assuming things like usual and when everything is linked all you need to do is get in the weakest link to get into the whole thing, invidual servers are easier to hack people just haven't besides like you said they haven't seen a reason but sooner or later someone will always make up a reason and be a jerk so thats why I don't think you're as knowledgeable as you claim if you miss these incredibly obvious facts 

actually no.  Gaming networks have been hacked before a month ago.  Xbox live has been hacked before.  They just weren't as weak with peoples personal data.

Aside from which... what makes you think individual servers are easier to hack?

What technological thing makes you think that?

Big servers and small servers usually use the same security protocols afterall... and big groups of servers are... well bigger.  Meaning there are more chances for holes to get in at various systems and more entry points into your system.  There are also more people with access who's computer you have a chance of taking over, more... everything.

Also there are more reasons to hack big servers.  PSN was hacked for peoples IDs and CC not to disrupt gaming.   OR maybe because Sony pissed off hackers.  (which your average company is smarter then sony on that.)

So no... bigger servers are easier to hack.