pizzahut451 said:
vlad321 said:
pizzahut451 said:
vlad321 said:
pizzahut451 said:
vlad321 said:
No, the whatever was meant specifically for that single point, I thought you'd catch on.
So... you basically admit to using circular logic to justify whatever you believe in. Good to know. Just as you say "I found all morals given by God are perfectly correct," I can say "I found all morals given by XXXXXXXXX are perfectly correct" where XXXXX is literally anything, again even fairy tales hold as much logical backing as any belief system out there. In fact using circular logic like you do, I can make ust about anything sound true.
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As long as those morals given by XXXXXXXX are perfecttly correct too, I dont see a reason why you shouldnt listen to XXXXXX. That is, assuming XXXXXX ia giving correct, good and righteous morals. If XXXXXXXX is givng false and bad morals, than XXXXXX doesnt hold much credit or value in comprassion with God. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IN THIS ARGUMENT, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WEATHER YOU BELIEVE IN UNVERSAL OR SUBJECTIVE MORALS. I don't think you know the difference between the 2.
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Again, define what definbes "correct, good, and righteous morals." Also, if you believe in universal morals, why are the christian morals the righteous ones? Why not the Aztec ones where you have to sacrifice yourself to a god to go to a form of heaven?
I am fully well aware of the difference between the two, you just don't realize that your logic is kind of laughable. Absolutely ANY argument you give me against fairy tales, I can use against religion. Which is why religion is just a collectino of fairy tales. It just happens to be a subset of fairy tales in which people actually believe.
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Let me say it again. I dont see how ANY morals Christ gave to people can any reasonable and good person consider wrong. His morals are objectivly correct. Or do you think anything he said was wrong? if so, please enlighten me. Oh wait, you probably didnt even read the New Testament. And if other religious books and fairy tales share the same message about morals as Jesus Christ does, than by all means go compare them and make them all the same. Like I said before, it all comes down to faith. and I beleive his morals are right because I just dont see how any good and reasonable person could consider his morals wrong. I didnt found a single thing wrong with his morals, so I beleive they are correct. Christianity (or its original founders at least) never aimed to be ''THE GREATEST RELIGION IN THE WOLRD WHICH CAN DISPROVE EVERYTHING AND MAKE THE OTHERS LOOK LAUGHABLE AND STUPID'' People only got that impression because Christanity grew to be extremly powerfull and popular in the world. Christ wanted for Christanity to teach people how to live a righteous and good life, not to exterminate and disprove every other religion. I dont think many (or any) religions disagree with his moral teachings. And what you said there furhter proves you dont even know what a moral is, let alone know the difference between subjective and unversal ones. Sacrificing yourself to God isnt a moral, its a commandment or a rule to an angry evil god. Why would God give you the gift of life and than wanted you to kill yourself for him? Thats not a moral.
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So let me get this straight, your WHOLE argument and belief is based on an argument that can be just stated as "I am right because I say so." I hope you realize what a shit argument that is.
Let's play it your way. Your belief is wrong because there is no way the morals of the Aztecs (or greeks, celts, fairy tales, etc. etc.) are the universal truth, and I don't see how anyone else can say so. So you are wrong by the exacty same logic you used. I just substituted one made up belief with another. See how it works?
You also mention it all comes down to faith, and faith is highly subjective. As I said, what Christ taught is wrong because it is not in accordance with all the other belief systems out there. In fact every belief system is wrong because we don't know absolutely jack shit about anything. Given 0 information, the probability of being right is 0, which is absolutely any and all belief systems (even atheism, however it is more right than any specific religion, as I have already proven).
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Actually, you (for the 4th time now) missed my point. I never said I am right because I say so. Did you forget what we were talking about? You said ''Fairy tales are the same as New Testament'' on which I said that New Testament is all about morals and teachings and if fairy tales are about the same moral teachings than go ahead and compare them. Than you asked what makes the moral teachings in New testament correct? I said it all comes down to faith and if you believe in universal laws. And than you asked what makes christian morlas the right ones (and thus twisting the subject). You are just going in circles in here, seeing as how I already answerd that question. While the world can never agree on universal moral laws, I personally beleive that Christ's morals belong to the good ones, as you still havent told me what exactly is wrong with Christ's morlas or how his teachings go against any other legitimate religous figures out there, so your point collapses there until you show me some examples where other religous figures and moral teachings go agaisnt Jesus's, but I doubt you will, seeing as you cant spot a diffrence between a way of worshiping a God or Gods and religious morals. And dont say stuff like ''people worshipped more Gods despite Jesus telling there is only one
And your last paragraph couldnt be more logically flawed. As far as I understood you, you said if we dont know much about a beleif ( be it a beleif or theory) than that belief must be wrong. So Big Bang theory is also false than? So people didnt know anything about Earth being round than, so going by your logic, they were right in assuming otherwise? And your proved (you didnt actually, I disproved you) that a religious person has a lot fatter chances of ending up in Hell than an atheist person, but I already disproved youn on that. You didnt prove that atheisism is more likely to be right than a specific religion
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First of all look at the underlined portions. You can't even go a paragraph without contradicting yourself.
Second I still hold all religions are fairy tales. There are plenty of morals to learn from Aesop's fables, which I have already said are just as valid as whatever you get from the bible (and keep in mind Aesop was around 500ish years BEFORE the fairy tales of Christ came about). Furthermore asking what makes christianity's morals right right ones is the exact same thing as comparing it to any fairy tale and its validity. If you can't realize that then I am sorry for assuming you would understand the argument, obviously I was wrong. You can find a "moral of the story" in any story. Name me a fairy tale and I'll give you the moral. Little Mermaid? Don't be an idiot and sacrifice your life for lost love. Hensel and Gretel? DOon't take candy from strangers.
I also already gave you a good example of another religion with its own morals going against christianity's. According to the Aztec's it is very moral to be sacrificed to a given god, it betters the entire population's wellbeing by appeasing said god, and you can win wars or have bountiful harvests depending to who the person was sacrificed. Correct me if I am wrong, but this practice isn't exactly in line with Christ's teachings. It was very moral for a person to be sacrificed.
Well you obviously did not understand me, again. I did not say if we don't know much about a belief, I said if we know nothing about a belief. Which is true ofr any given religion. There is absolutely 0 reproducable and observable evidence for anything that pertains to a god (other than the fact that meditation actually relaxes you). Meanwhile the Big Bang has had several pieces of evidene, which is observable and reproducable, therefore it is infitely more right than absolutely any bullshit any fairy tale has ever claimed. You also fail SPECTACULRLY to understand the point, because the people who believed that the earth was not round is wrong, not right. If you don't have any information, you are guaranteed to be wrong. In fact it wasn't until there was some mild evidence to suggest otherwise, which the ancient Greeks found. Even better, let's run with your analogy. The Greeks found a small amount of evidence of the spherical nature of Earth, and lo and behold they were more right (infact they were absolutely correct) than any other bullshit people had come up with before that. Substitute "spherical nature of Earth" for any topic, and you will find that religion is just as believeable as any fairy tales, and is simply wrong. In fact, before there was evidence there was a whole lot of shit circulating around about what the earth is. It is flat, it is on a turtlle's back,etc. etc. All those beliefs are the equivalent of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. etc. Basically they are ALL WRONG, simply because no informatin exists.
Lastly, I have proved MANY times why atheism is more right than any religion, however as seems to be the trend with you, I will have to reiterate because I assumed you understood and I was wrong. Take the entire space of "T," where T is the combination of all the different combinations of "things" that created and govern the entire existance. Within this T, there is a space A, in which some sentient being/force has/had a hand in existance. Both spaces are infinite, however the space A is far less inifnite than the space T. For an atheist to be wrong, the truth has to be within A, for him to be right it has to be outside of A. Meanwhile for a religious person to be right, they not only have to be within A, but also have to be in a very spcific, infitesmally small, subspace in A. Simply because the space where atheists can be wrong is much much, infinitely, smaller than the space in which ANY religious belief is wrong. Therefore atheists are less wrong than religious people, infinitely so. I sincerely hope you understand at least this argument.
For a simple example of how both a religious person and an atheist can be wrong: Some comic being went to the Cosmic Taco Bell and had a Burrito. He suffered from food poisoning and shit out our universe. Just like you don't care about what you shit out, it doesn't give a damn about anything in its shit, meaning our universe. In this case atheists are wrong because then there is a god-like being, but all other religions out there are also arong (unless someone out there says that our existance came about from soeone's shit). Keep in mind that this is simply one possibility out of an infinite amount of possibilities. The reason they are infinite amount, is because we have 0 information about what happened before the Big Bang. Therefore ANY specific theory, which is what religions are, have the probability of being right as 1/infinity, which is equal to 0. Until we have more information that dates before the Big Bang any theory is wrong.
Edit: You DO realize that "religious morals" is the exact same thing as "religious beliefs," correct? Especially when you claim their are the universal morals.
