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Forums - Sales Discussion - PS3 drops out of UK Top10 - after 3 weeks

Diomedes1976 said:
DRJ said:
mrstickball said:

So the PS3 is moving around 110k units a week, or 440k a month (give or take) vs. 1m-ish for the Wii and 500k-ish for the 360.

Not bad for a $600/40k yen/399pd/Euro system.


If the PS3 and 360 sell the same each month, MS will still have a huge lead that Sony will not be able to make up. Which will just secure all titles that are on the PS3 will be on the 360. Including FF.

And getting outsold 2-1 to the Wii, while the Wii is still supply constrained has really got to piss Sony off. Especially since Nintendo is making money on the Wii while Sony is losing money on the PS3.

If Sony does't drop the price by $200 or more soon (as in last month) it is over. They have to move the units so they can sell the games, or 3rd parties will start to drop support.

I won't call it over for Sony just yet. When it is sitting on the shelves this Xmas with few people interested, then it is over.


 

The situation is just the adverse .Selling comparably the PS3 would secure all the games of the X360 except the first and second parties of Microsoft .But it would have the first and second pary games of Sony plus a hell of a lot of japanese exclusives ,people like Level 5 ,Dimps ,Spike ,Nippon Ichi ,Atlus ,Taito and the like arent exactly close to develop all its games for X360 ,And the big ones as Sega ,Capcom ,Konami ,Namco and Square ...well lets say Sega and Capcom effectively would put most of its games in BOTH consoles but the PS3 would still secure some exclusives from there .And FF between them ,that game sells about 40% its total numbers in Japan and in Japan the X360 is dead .

 

 

You guys should stay calm ,the lifecycles of the consoles are like this ,the first year is the launching of the machine ,it has to sell some million and to do it it need some good games but thats about it as long as it sells some million units and the production reduces costs and the heavy-hitter software nears completion it is doing well ,after all only the hardcore gamers buy consoles at launch .Then the second year the battle begins ,price has to be dropped to include more demographics in the potential buyers ,a lot of great software must be released and the companies start to see some revenue ,then by the third year you can have your machine at full speed .The obsession of certain groups of people to see Sony destroyed is just absurd .For all we know the PS3 is selling better that the X360 last year considering the worlwide numbers ;slighty better in the US(1060 000 consoles versus 1000 000 ) ,way better in Japan (870K versus some 200K ) and better in Europe despite being just released .Give Sony some time ,the price will be dropped when it is neccesary ,the online service will improve (to play it is already excellent for free ) and the heavy-hitter software will be released some day .Just pretending that the game is over because PS3 sales arent at the same level that the launch week or that the Wii has beat it in a holiday week (impulse buying of a cheaper machine ) doesnt mean anything .The PS3 is selling well in Europe ,there is stock but you keep seeing people buying the machine at the stores just not like the launch day of course .Enjoy life and stop looking obsesively at numbers ,may will come and july will come and september will finally come and then we will see if Sony has sold more or less than 1.3 million consoles as MS stated boldly end of september last year .


From what i've heard UK is about 35% of the market, but tastes vary from country to country.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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NorthStar said:
The thing Sony and Microsoft has is money and lots of it.Wining this generation and loosisng heaps of cash is not as dire as losing this generation and not being able to have as good of a chance of success in future generations.The only reason this console is't selling as good as it can is the Price.

Other threads have dealt with this issue so I'll be brief, Sony does not have heaps of cash to throw at the PS3.  The company's total profit is only $1 billion, they have about $4 billion cash on hand, and have over $11 billion in debt (up from $9 billion a year ago).  They've put themselves in a no win situation because it is becoming clearer with each passing week that the PS3 is not selling at the rate it needs to for Sony to have any hope of recouping its investment.  Their latest loss estimate for 2007 is now $2-2.2 billion (250billion yen) which is up from 100 billion yen last year.  Given this trend and the fact that PS3 sales are still not what they expected it'll probably end up worse.  Everyone says Sony needs to cut the price, they lose $100-200 a system, are they supposed to cut $100, $200?  They finally were able to sell the PSP at cost but they've been forced to eat $30 a unit there to spur sales.  At some point (sooner than I think most of you realize) Sony will run out of either shareholder patience or money.  The fact is that Nintendo has far more money to throw around than Sony ($1.5 billion profit, $10 billion cash, no debt) and doesn't have battery recalls and TV R&D to worry about. Even if Sony did have enough money it's stupid of them to have put themselves in this position, they are the market leader they shouldn't be blowing money like this.

I agree it's still too early to write off Sony, and usually the first year is too early to write off any video game company.  Then again usually video game companies don't lose up to $3 billion their first year and go from 20 million units a year to maybe 6-7 million.  All we can say about the sales is that 3 weeks in and the PS3's Euro sales are conforming to the trend elsewhere, sells out to the few rabbid Sony fanboys with too much money in their pockets and then drops.  Forget the AAA titles, 3rd party support (which will only decline faster with the latest sales figures), and all the other usual video game indicators, it's money that matters most because without it nothing else matters.  Sony is getting dangerously close to discovering that.



albionus said:
NorthStar said:
The thing Sony and Microsoft has is money and lots of it.Wining this generation and loosisng heaps of cash is not as dire as losing this generation and not being able to have as good of a chance of success in future generations.The only reason this console is't selling as good as it can is the Price.

Other threads have dealt with this issue so I'll be brief, Sony does not have heaps of cash to throw at the PS3. The company's total profit is only $1 billion, they have about $4 billion cash on hand, and have over $11 billion in debt (up from $9 billion a year ago). They've put themselves in a no win situation because it is becoming clearer with each passing week that the PS3 is not selling at the rate it needs to for Sony to have any hope of recouping its investment. Their latest loss estimate for 2007 is now $2-2.2 billion (250billion yen) which is up from 100 billion yen last year. Given this trend and the fact that PS3 sales are still not what they expected it'll probably end up worse. Everyone says Sony needs to cut the price, they lose $100-200 a system, are they supposed to cut $100, $200? They finally were able to sell the PSP at cost but they've been forced to eat $30 a unit there to spur sales. At some point (sooner than I think most of you realize) Sony will run out of either shareholder patience or money. The fact is that Nintendo has far more money to throw around than Sony ($1.5 billion profit, $10 billion cash, no debt) and doesn't have battery recalls and TV R&D to worry about. Even if Sony did have enough money it's stupid of them to have put themselves in this position, they are the market leader they shouldn't be blowing money like this.

I agree it's still too early to write off Sony, and usually the first year is too early to write off any video game company. Then again usually video game companies don't lose up to $3 billion their first year and go from 20 million units a year to maybe 6-7 million. All we can say about the sales is that 3 weeks in and the PS3's Euro sales are conforming to the trend elsewhere, sells out to the few rabbid Sony fanboys with too much money in their pockets and then drops. Forget the AAA titles, 3rd party support (which will only decline faster with the latest sales figures), and all the other usual video game indicators, it's money that matters most because without it nothing else matters. Sony is getting dangerously close to discovering that.


 Great, well informed post.



Reports of Sony's demise are greatly exaggerated, just like the PSP is a "failure."



Kwaad said:

For those of you saying the Wii sold 25,000 in UK. That is 100,000 in UK alone, consider it is about a quarter of Europe sales.

That means that 100,000 Wii's are being sold weekly in Europe. Nintendo's biggest market.  Wow. I thought it was their smallest... *shrug*


 

Actualy the last week in UK was the third best for Nintendo since launch, so 25k is not normal.



 

 

Buy it and pray to the gods of Sigs: Naznatips!

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Diomedes1976 said:
 

You guys should stay calm ,the lifecycles of the consoles are like this ,the first year is the launching of the machine ,it has to sell some million and to do it it need some good games but thats about it as long as it sells some million units and the production reduces costs and the heavy-hitter software nears completion it is doing well ,after all only the hardcore gamers buy consoles at launch .Then the second year the battle begins ,price has to be dropped to include more demographics in the potential buyers ,a lot of great software must be released and the companies start to see some revenue ,then by the third year you can have your machine at full speed .The obsession of certain groups of people to see Sony destroyed is just absurd .For all we know the PS3 is selling better that the X360 last year considering the worlwide numbers ;slighty better in the US(1060 000 consoles versus 1000 000 ) ,way better in Japan (870K versus some 200K ) and better in Europe despite being just released .Give Sony some time ,the price will be dropped when it is neccesary ,the online service will improve (to play it is already excellent for free ) and the heavy-hitter software will be released some day .Just pretending that the game is over because PS3 sales arent at the same level that the launch week or that the Wii has beat it in a holiday week (impulse buying of a cheaper machine ) doesnt mean anything .The PS3 is selling well in Europe ,there is stock but you keep seeing people buying the machine at the stores just not like the launch day of course .Enjoy life and stop looking obsesively at numbers ,may will come and july will come and september will finally come and then we will see if Sony has sold more or less than 1.3 million consoles as MS stated boldly end of september last year .

I have to disagree ...

The first year is (by far) the most important year for a console because it sets the tone for its entire life. The first year of game development is (pretty much) whatever your previous platform's sales earned you because many publishers will anticipate your new system will have similar sales to your previous system. The first six months of sales will determine the level of support you get from developers in the following 12 to 18 months; if you sell poorly the quantity and quality of games third party developers produce for you is greatly reduced. What this means is that continued poor sales of the PS3 will just lead to poor third party support which leads to even worse sales.

I'm not saying that the PS3 has to be leading in sales, but if it isn't breaking 25,000 per week in Japan and 200,000 per month in North America its sales are far too weak to really expect much in the way of strong sales later on.



Kwaad said:

For those of you saying the Wii sold 25,000 in UK. That is 100,000 in UK alone, consider it is about a quarter of Europe sales.

That means that 100,000 Wii's are being sold weekly in Europe. Nintendo's biggest market.  Wow. I thought it was their smallest... *shrug*


It's probably just a supply spike but it's hard to say it's doing "horrible" there.  I think they're selling almost as well in PAL total as they are in Japan, anyway.



windbane said:
Reports of Sony's demise are greatly exaggerated, just like the PSP is a "failure."
Subsidizing people's entertainment is not a mark of success.  The PSP has so far earned either a small loss or small profit for Sony, which isn't too great for the "Walkman of the 21st Century" that was supposed to destroy Nintendo's handheld dominance the way the PS1 did with Nintendo's console dominance (that's mainly why some call it a failure, it hasn't lived up to Sony's boasts and expectations).  With a $30 drop in price any profit they could have earned with it will be shot for a year or so, that's assuming sales of units and video games pick up as much as expected.  They are expected to redesign it soon and Nintendo will likely drop the price of the DS also if the PSP starts doing too well all of which will further eat into profits.  At the moment the PSP is not a failure but neither is it a success.

If you think Sony's "demise is exaggerated" then why do you think so?  I don't think it's 100% certain but I do think Sony is on its way to said demise for the variety of reasons I listed.  Do you have any reasons for why Sony breaking the bank and not selling as many units as it expected (especially since the PS3 seems to have a 100million+ install base built into its business plan) is not a bad thing?  I don't mean reasons like blind fanboy faith or simple the world is as it always shall be attitude, or trust that the Sony big gun AAA titles will save the day, or that someday in the distant future maybe half of Americans will have HD TV's and be able to benefit from the PS3's extra capabilities, or that 3rd party devs will suddenly decide they don't like money and would rather spend their resources maximizing Cell for the greater good of Sony.  Sorry if I precluded your reasons there, those are the most fatuous excuses I've heard so far for why Sony isn't in a bad spot.  If you do have good reasons I would like to hear them, no one is perfect and I may be missing something after all.



The 360 is selling 11,000 a week in the UK over a year after release.  The PS3 is selling 17,000 a week in the UK 3 weeks after release.  Not even Sony fans can spin that into a positive. 

The 360 should be outselling the PS3 in the UK within the next month. 



albionus said:
windbane said:
Reports of Sony's demise are greatly exaggerated, just like the PSP is a "failure."
Subsidizing people's entertainment is not a mark of success. The PSP has so far earned either a small loss or small profit for Sony, which isn't too great for the "Walkman of the 21st Century" that was supposed to destroy Nintendo's handheld dominance the way the PS1 did with Nintendo's console dominance (that's mainly why some call it a failure, it hasn't lived up to Sony's boasts and expectations). With a $30 drop in price any profit they could have earned with it will be shot for a year or so, that's assuming sales of units and video games pick up as much as expected. They are expected to redesign it soon and Nintendo will likely drop the price of the DS also if the PSP starts doing too well all of which will further eat into profits. At the moment the PSP is not a failure but neither is it a success.

If you think Sony's "demise is exaggerated" then why do you think so? I don't think it's 100% certain but I do think Sony is on its way to said demise for the variety of reasons I listed. Do you have any reasons for why Sony breaking the bank and not selling as many units as it expected (especially since the PS3 seems to have a 100million+ install base built into its business plan) is not a bad thing? I don't mean reasons like blind fanboy faith or simple the world is as it always shall be attitude, or trust that the Sony big gun AAA titles will save the day, or that someday in the distant future maybe half of Americans will have HD TV's and be able to benefit from the PS3's extra capabilities, or that 3rd party devs will suddenly decide they don't like money and would rather spend their resources maximizing Cell for the greater good of Sony. Sorry if I precluded your reasons there, those are the most fatuous excuses I've heard so far for why Sony isn't in a bad spot. If you do have good reasons I would like to hear them, no one is perfect and I may be missing something after all.


 Wasn't the walkman of the 21'st century supposed to be the NW-HD1? You do know how much money sony makes right? Can you seriously imagine how much in losses it would take for a company like sony to back down? Seriously...... betamax, minidisc, and various other ventures went on for an extremely long time because sony is not the company that will drop the ball and run.. leaving all those who actually purchased their technology in a lurch.

Yes sony's demise is exaggerated  because people seem to assum that either sony is a small company and cannot take (or cope) with losses. I think a little bit more of a financial study need's to be done on your part.



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