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Forums - Sales Discussion - What will sell more Gran Turismo 5 or Mario Kart wii.

Avinash_Tyagi on 14 December 2007
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Why would a nongamer casual play games at all? Convenient hwo there's suddenly two types of casuals now, there wasn't back then.
So either I have the poorest observational skills on Vgchartz, or you've made some weird arguments earlier.

Hence the reason why I said that the PS2 and PS1 never reached those people in previous generations, they didn't play games before this gen, with the Wii and DS (note all the stories about senior citizens playing the Wii)

 

I don't see how you didn't get that but ok


How the heck do you know that these people didn't play games before? Do you go into their home and check every console generation? The fact is; the PS2 was known as the most casual console of all time because of it's tremendous breadth in games. Especially when it hit Eastern Europe at a low price point.

So I'm slow for not understanding that when you say that an older console is not casual, it actually IS casual, but not until a new gen of hardware comes along for senior citizens to embrace? There was no mention of this prior to this particular thread. You told me I had a flawed sense of logic before, maybe that's because mine is constant and doesn't skip back and forth in time...


 Because they actually say that they didn't play games before, that's the point.  Hence the reason i siad that PS2 and PS1 didn't go as far as Wii has gone, and hence the reason Wii will sell more, because Wii will reach people who don't game.

 

PS2 never had a brain training or Wii Fit.  My arguments never changed, you just misunderstood



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Avinash_Tyagi on 14 December 2007
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
jjseth said:
The reason why you'll see higher attach rates on the PS3 for GT5 is because early adapters are generally hardcore gamers, and many of those enjoy great driving/racing simulators. So it will get off to a great start, friends will see how great the game looks and with the addition of online racing, it should propel GT5 sales to a new level. Will it beat GT3 as far as sales go? Probably not, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it fairly close.

This is easily the top driving simulator/racing series of all time. They have never had a truly poor selling WW game. If 8.79 million sold by GT4 is considered a failure, i'm sure that Nintendo and MS would love to have "failures" like that. MK Wii will jump out to a quick lead, but it won't last as long as GT5 will as far as high sales go.

If this comes out in October 2008, (or later) I don't see how PS3 install base would be less then 16-20 million. And GT5 will sell systems, there really is no denying that. How many, is another question all together (talking about hardware).


 I doubt PS3 will sell 10 million+ in 10 months, 14 million tops, and that is stretching it


You don't think that the PS3 can sell six million units in ten months?

(That number came from the fact that the PS3 WILL have at least 8 mil [(May be close to 8.25) at the rate it's selling now] at the end of the year.  The install base could be sixteen million in october.  that is eight million in ten months ~ 800k/month worldwide.  That doesn't seem that hard to me.)

When the GT5 for PS3 launches, I can definetly see it having at least sixteen and as much as 20 mil, especially on the heels of releases such as, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, DMC4, GTAIV.  If they don't help the PS3 sell at least eight months, I don't know what will.


 No, the PS3 hasn't sold 800K in most months WW


Well, I know it hasn't sold that WW in the past couple of months, since it was six hundred dollars.  I mean now, with the $399 price point, and all the games  I mentioned coming out, you really couldn't see the PS3 pushing eight million units in ten months next year? 


 Nope, its sales right now are due to the holidays expect it to fall back after the holidays, look at japan, only the holiday effect is keeping it in the 30K's after the holiday it'll slip back into the 20's and maybe even 10's



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

famousringo on 14 December 2007
Peter Potamus said:
Sorry, but GT5 will sell 4 million more lifetime than Mario Kart. I'm willing to bet on this one too.

 I haven't seen anyone else take you up on this, but I will.

Let's hammer out the details. Lifetime is way too long range, let's set the timeframe to one year. The bet is whether or not GT5 will sell 4 million more than MK Wii in the first year of each title's release. To make that clear, that's twelve months of sales for MK Wii, and twelve months of sales of GT5. If you want to adjust your 4 million margin, since we aren't talking lifetime any more, now would be the time to do it.

 The stakes... I'm not a fan of bans, so how about the winner gets to set the loser's avatar for 3 months? Maybe throw in a line or two of signature, if you like. 



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Bodhesatva on 14 December 2007

GT5.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

DMeisterJ on 14 December 2007
Avinash_Tyagi said:
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
jjseth said:
The reason why you'll see higher attach rates on the PS3 for GT5 is because early adapters are generally hardcore gamers, and many of those enjoy great driving/racing simulators. So it will get off to a great start, friends will see how great the game looks and with the addition of online racing, it should propel GT5 sales to a new level. Will it beat GT3 as far as sales go? Probably not, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it fairly close.

This is easily the top driving simulator/racing series of all time. They have never had a truly poor selling WW game. If 8.79 million sold by GT4 is considered a failure, i'm sure that Nintendo and MS would love to have "failures" like that. MK Wii will jump out to a quick lead, but it won't last as long as GT5 will as far as high sales go.

If this comes out in October 2008, (or later) I don't see how PS3 install base would be less then 16-20 million. And GT5 will sell systems, there really is no denying that. How many, is another question all together (talking about hardware).


 I doubt PS3 will sell 10 million+ in 10 months, 14 million tops, and that is stretching it


You don't think that the PS3 can sell six million units in ten months?

(That number came from the fact that the PS3 WILL have at least 8 mil [(May be close to 8.25) at the rate it's selling now] at the end of the year.  The install base could be sixteen million in october.  that is eight million in ten months ~ 800k/month worldwide.  That doesn't seem that hard to me.)

When the GT5 for PS3 launches, I can definetly see it having at least sixteen and as much as 20 mil, especially on the heels of releases such as, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, DMC4, GTAIV.  If they don't help the PS3 sell at least eight months, I don't know what will.


 No, the PS3 hasn't sold 800K in most months WW


Well, I know it hasn't sold that WW in the past couple of months, since it was six hundred dollars.  I mean now, with the $399 price point, and all the games  I mentioned coming out, you really couldn't see the PS3 pushing eight million units in ten months next year? 


 Nope, its sales right now are due to the holidays expect it to fall back after the holidays, look at japan, only the holiday effect is keeping it in the 30K's after the holiday it'll slip back into the 20's and maybe even 10's

 

Well, that's your opinion, but I believe based on games like DMC4 and MGS4, the PS3 can sustain much higher than ten, twenty or thiry thousand per week.  I definetly think it can sit on forty to fifty thousand per week. 

 



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Avinash_Tyagi on 14 December 2007
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
DMeisterJ said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
jjseth said:
The reason why you'll see higher attach rates on the PS3 for GT5 is because early adapters are generally hardcore gamers, and many of those enjoy great driving/racing simulators. So it will get off to a great start, friends will see how great the game looks and with the addition of online racing, it should propel GT5 sales to a new level. Will it beat GT3 as far as sales go? Probably not, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it fairly close.

This is easily the top driving simulator/racing series of all time. They have never had a truly poor selling WW game. If 8.79 million sold by GT4 is considered a failure, i'm sure that Nintendo and MS would love to have "failures" like that. MK Wii will jump out to a quick lead, but it won't last as long as GT5 will as far as high sales go.

If this comes out in October 2008, (or later) I don't see how PS3 install base would be less then 16-20 million. And GT5 will sell systems, there really is no denying that. How many, is another question all together (talking about hardware).


 I doubt PS3 will sell 10 million+ in 10 months, 14 million tops, and that is stretching it


You don't think that the PS3 can sell six million units in ten months?

(That number came from the fact that the PS3 WILL have at least 8 mil [(May be close to 8.25) at the rate it's selling now] at the end of the year.  The install base could be sixteen million in october.  that is eight million in ten months ~ 800k/month worldwide.  That doesn't seem that hard to me.)

When the GT5 for PS3 launches, I can definetly see it having at least sixteen and as much as 20 mil, especially on the heels of releases such as, MGS4, KZ2, LBP, DMC4, GTAIV.  If they don't help the PS3 sell at least eight months, I don't know what will.


 No, the PS3 hasn't sold 800K in most months WW


Well, I know it hasn't sold that WW in the past couple of months, since it was six hundred dollars.  I mean now, with the $399 price point, and all the games  I mentioned coming out, you really couldn't see the PS3 pushing eight million units in ten months next year? 


 Nope, its sales right now are due to the holidays expect it to fall back after the holidays, look at japan, only the holiday effect is keeping it in the 30K's after the holiday it'll slip back into the 20's and maybe even 10's

 

Well, that's your opinion, but I believe based on games like DMC4 and MGS4, the PS3 can sustain much higher than ten, twenty or thiry thousand per week.  I definetly think it can sit on forty to fifty thousand per week. 

 


 Sustain, no, spike for a week or two sure



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Mummelmann on 14 December 2007
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Why would a nongamer casual play games at all? Convenient hwo there's suddenly two types of casuals now, there wasn't back then.
So either I have the poorest observational skills on Vgchartz, or you've made some weird arguments earlier.

Hence the reason why I said that the PS2 and PS1 never reached those people in previous generations, they didn't play games before this gen, with the Wii and DS (note all the stories about senior citizens playing the Wii)

 

I don't see how you didn't get that but ok


How the heck do you know that these people didn't play games before? Do you go into their home and check every console generation? The fact is; the PS2 was known as the most casual console of all time because of it's tremendous breadth in games. Especially when it hit Eastern Europe at a low price point.

So I'm slow for not understanding that when you say that an older console is not casual, it actually IS casual, but not until a new gen of hardware comes along for senior citizens to embrace? There was no mention of this prior to this particular thread. You told me I had a flawed sense of logic before, maybe that's because mine is constant and doesn't skip back and forth in time...


Because they actually say that they didn't play games before, that's the point. Hence the reason i siad that PS2 and PS1 didn't go as far as Wii has gone, and hence the reason Wii will sell more, because Wii will reach people who don't game.

 

PS2 never had a brain training or Wii Fit. My arguments never changed, you just misunderstood


So the Wii is not a gaming console then? It can't be since those buying it aren't gamers. Oh well, at least gamers have other consoles or a PC for their gaming needs then.

PS: PS2 had Eyetoy, possibly the most casual title ever, Buzz, Singstar, Guitar Hero... What a strange point to make on Wii Fit and Brain Training.



Avinash_Tyagi on 14 December 2007
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Why would a nongamer casual play games at all? Convenient hwo there's suddenly two types of casuals now, there wasn't back then.
So either I have the poorest observational skills on Vgchartz, or you've made some weird arguments earlier.

Hence the reason why I said that the PS2 and PS1 never reached those people in previous generations, they didn't play games before this gen, with the Wii and DS (note all the stories about senior citizens playing the Wii)

 

I don't see how you didn't get that but ok


How the heck do you know that these people didn't play games before? Do you go into their home and check every console generation? The fact is; the PS2 was known as the most casual console of all time because of it's tremendous breadth in games. Especially when it hit Eastern Europe at a low price point.

So I'm slow for not understanding that when you say that an older console is not casual, it actually IS casual, but not until a new gen of hardware comes along for senior citizens to embrace? There was no mention of this prior to this particular thread. You told me I had a flawed sense of logic before, maybe that's because mine is constant and doesn't skip back and forth in time...


Because they actually say that they didn't play games before, that's the point. Hence the reason i siad that PS2 and PS1 didn't go as far as Wii has gone, and hence the reason Wii will sell more, because Wii will reach people who don't game.

 

PS2 never had a brain training or Wii Fit. My arguments never changed, you just misunderstood


 So the Wii is not a gaming console then? It can't be since those buying it aren't gamers. Oh well, at least gamers have other consoles or a PC for their gaming needs then.

PS: PS2 had Eyetoy, possibly the most casual title ever, Buzz, Singstar... What a strange point to make on Wii Fit and Brain Training. 


 Ummm...where did I say gamers aren't buying the Wii?  I said nongamers are buying the Wii I never said anything about gamers or casual gamers not buying the Wii, I think this is where you misunderstanding me seems to stem from, you make up things i've never said.

 

Eyetoy, Buzz and Singstar didn't appeal to those who never played before like Brain training, Wii sports, Wii fit etc are doing now



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Mummelmann on 14 December 2007
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Why would a nongamer casual play games at all? Convenient hwo there's suddenly two types of casuals now, there wasn't back then.
So either I have the poorest observational skills on Vgchartz, or you've made some weird arguments earlier.

Hence the reason why I said that the PS2 and PS1 never reached those people in previous generations, they didn't play games before this gen, with the Wii and DS (note all the stories about senior citizens playing the Wii)

 

I don't see how you didn't get that but ok


How the heck do you know that these people didn't play games before? Do you go into their home and check every console generation? The fact is; the PS2 was known as the most casual console of all time because of it's tremendous breadth in games. Especially when it hit Eastern Europe at a low price point.

So I'm slow for not understanding that when you say that an older console is not casual, it actually IS casual, but not until a new gen of hardware comes along for senior citizens to embrace? There was no mention of this prior to this particular thread. You told me I had a flawed sense of logic before, maybe that's because mine is constant and doesn't skip back and forth in time...


Because they actually say that they didn't play games before, that's the point. Hence the reason i siad that PS2 and PS1 didn't go as far as Wii has gone, and hence the reason Wii will sell more, because Wii will reach people who don't game.

 

PS2 never had a brain training or Wii Fit. My arguments never changed, you just misunderstood


So the Wii is not a gaming console then? It can't be since those buying it aren't gamers. Oh well, at least gamers have other consoles or a PC for their gaming needs then.

PS: PS2 had Eyetoy, possibly the most casual title ever, Buzz, Singstar... What a strange point to make on Wii Fit and Brain Training.


Ummm...where did I say gamers aren't buying the Wii? I said nongamers are buying the Wii I never said anything about gamers or casual gamers not buying the Wii, I think this is where you misunderstanding me seems to stem from, you make up things i've never said.

 

Eyetoy, Buzz and Singstar didn't appeal to those who never played before like Brain training, Wii sports, Wii fit etc are doing now


Make up things? I remember us having a bash in another thread about the very same thing, where you said time and time again that the Wii was aimed at the casual market, which was the cause of it's success. Casuals, as in non-gamers. But now, it's aimed at both groups? Remember, according to your statements in this very thread, casuals and gamers have different tastes, so making a console catering to both would be nigh impossible. Make up your mind then.

Why did those titles no appeal to the same crowd? The concepts are strikingly similar, is it because Nintendo rules the world now, perhaps? Really, that is just a silly statement.



Avinash_Tyagi on 14 December 2007
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Mummelmann said:
 

 


So the Wii is not a gaming console then? It can't be since those buying it aren't gamers. Oh well, at least gamers have other consoles or a PC for their gaming needs then.

PS: PS2 had Eyetoy, possibly the most casual title ever, Buzz, Singstar... What a strange point to make on Wii Fit and Brain Training.


Ummm...where did I say gamers aren't buying the Wii? I said nongamers are buying the Wii I never said anything about gamers or casual gamers not buying the Wii, I think this is where you misunderstanding me seems to stem from, you make up things i've never said.

 

Eyetoy, Buzz and Singstar didn't appeal to those who never played before like Brain training, Wii sports, Wii fit etc are doing now


 Make up things? I remember us having a bash in another thread about the very same thing, where you said time and time again that the Wii was aimed at the casual market, which was the cause of it's success. Casuals, as in non-gamers. But now, it's aimed at both groups? Make up your mind then.

Why did those titles no appeal to the same crowd? The concepts are strikingly similar, is it because Nintendo rules the world now, perhaps? Really, that is just a silly statement.


 Just because it targets a particular group doesn't mean other groups cant buy it, just because Wii fit is intended to bring in nongamers doesn't mean gamers cant buy it, doesn't mean they can't go out and get Mario Galaxy, just because Nintendo is intedning to reach nongamers doesn't mean gamers and casual gamers don't buy it.  Hence why i said you're making stuff up, i never said that gamers don't buy it, i said that it does what PS1 and 2 didn't it reaches those who didn't game bfore, the nongamer casuals

 

Who knows why they don't appeal to the same crowd, however the buzz around the Wii sports, brain training etc. is much greater, not to mention sales are higher, maybe Nintendo does a better PR job.

 

 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)