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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Wii be 3rd Place? Two perspectives.

Rugger08 said:
boilermaker11 said:

It's not fanboy nonsense, it's the truth. Isn't the attach ratio for the Wii lower than the PS3? How many articles have been floating around the internet that basically say "The Wii sells a lot of hardware, but the people aren't playing the games"? If it had a "proven library" then it'd have an attach ratio closer to the 360. That is fact. Mario and Zelda =/= oustanding library

The attach ratio doesn't matter to developers, only the total software sold. And Wii sells more software.

Lets do a scenario: It is Christmas 08 and 50 million Wiis have been sold and only 20 million PS3s.

A developer can expect attach ratio of 20% on PS3 and 10% on Wii, which console does the developer make the game for?

50 million * 10% = 5 million sold on Wii

20 million * 20% = 4 million sold on PS3

Point proven. And it doesn't even take into account it would cost half as much to make the game for the Wii rather than PS3.


 its not even that. Its about making money and dev costs. They could probably sell 1/2 as many wii games as a PS3 game and make mor emoney on dev costs alone. This is why i think the Wii software market is being saturated with get rich quick games capitalizing on the innovations.

Its a shame too because they dont really sell that well compared to Galazy or metroid or Zelda......but its about $$$ more than anything.



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So your argument for depth is that the PS3 has crap in more popular genres?

Alot of those FPS you mentioned didn't exactly tear up the charts or make reviewers go nuts with praise, but they are FPSs soooo I guess that makes for a deeper library.

mediocre to crap games are mediocre to crap games, doesn't matter if it's a more popular genre or not. And again That's alot of FPSs. Saying there are a large variety of FPSs and sports games doesn't mean it's a deep library.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Garcian Smith said:

since people who currently own 360s aren't going to go out and buy another one.


 Unless it gets the 3RRoD. Zing! =P



The_vagabond7 said:
So your argument for depth is that the PS3 has crap in more popular genres?

Alot of those FPS you mentioned didn't exactly tear up the charts or make reviewers go nuts with praise, but they are FPSs soooo I guess that makes for a deeper library.

mediocre to crap games are mediocre to crap games, doesn't matter if it's a more popular genre or not. And again That's alot of FPSs. Saying there are a large variety of FPSs and sports games doesn't mean it's a deep library.

 that pretty much the definition of depth. Like FPS's, try Blacksite, try Fear, try RB6, try Resistance, try Timeshift, try UT3, try Orange Box. Deep library in those genres. Action Adventure can go the same way. Ratchet, Uncharted, NGS, Heavenly Sword, Lair, Ass. Creed. Stranglehold, Folklore, Warhawk, Conan, Kane and Lynch, Splinter Cell......vs. Dewey, Looney Tunes, RE, manhunt, Galaxy, Zelda, Ratty

This isnt meant to take away form the Wii...but the origination of this thread was about 2 bloggers differing opinions. I really think some software lineup arguments hold up even under the most objective and reasonable debates. 



Having a lot of games in a few genres equals depth? I'm sorry, but I simply have to disagree with your definition, and leave it at that.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

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The_vagabond7 said:
Having a lot of games in a few genres equals depth? I'm sorry, but I simply have to disagree with your definition, and leave it at that.

well, what should i do, go through and do gamerankings scores for the aforementione dgames?

I dont think ALL of the games ive listed are ass.......theres more of a pool to choose form, like i said, in each of those genres (Metroid, Galaxy, Mario Kart, Brawl, Zelda) each ninty game is in spot 1, 2 or 3 imo across all systems.....but after that teh list is much smaller.

Sure, Darkness, Ass Creed, Clancy arent spectacular games, but the point of depth is for a fan of each genre having more opportunities to play said genre....what is depth to you? Some hybrid score over # of games divided by apple pies? Keeping it simple, for fans of these genres there are more options to them and besides Lair, non of them are really horrendous to fans of the genres.



Realistically, you don't typically see a dramatic shift in popularity for a product; as a result the worst case for the Wii would be its sales would drop by 20% each year, and the best case for the PS3 would be its sales would increase 25% every year. If you assume that the Wii's sales for 2007 will be 17 Million, and the PS3's sales will be 7 Million, this would result in the Wii having sold 61 Million units at the end of 2011 and the PS3 having sold 59 Million units.

The best case for the PS3 and the worst case for the Wii still has the Wii leading by 2 Million units when this generation is (more or less) over ...

I don't think this is going to happen though being that Wii Fit after 2 weeks on the market has joined Mario Party 8, Super Paper Mario, Super Mario Galaxy, Dragon Quest Swords, and the Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess in outselling every PS3 game in Japan. The more I hear about this game, the more it reminds me of the begining of 2006 ... right before  Nintendo released Nintendogs, Brain Training and Animal Crossing in Japan everyone was claiming that the DS' lead was soon to be over and people would realize how much more important graphics are



steverhcp02 said:
mancandy said:

 well YOU may have played through them but as per sales they really arent tearing up the charts. My point was theres those MASSIVE awesome games in their selective genres that i mentioned (you can probably throw RE4 in there too, imo) and i never really said much about 3rd party support at all, not sure why youre talking about that. And the fact i mentioned the big daddies and they were all 1st party games isnt a bad thing at all, Nintendo can rely on those games forever, they are nintendo, correlation of a product with great games is WHY nintendo is nintendo. for every COD 3 or Medal of honor on wii we have, darkness,COD 4, COD3, Orange Box, timeshift, UT3, resistance, rainbow 6, medal of honor, blacksite, jericho, ghost recon, fear, soldier of fortune.........wii has red steel, far cry, cod 3, medal of honor, metroid........theres not as much depth there sure, metroid may trump MANY if not all of the PS3 games, but for the systems being alive essentially the same time there just isnt as much depth.

2K sports games, The Show, NBA 07 and 08 theres more sporting options as well. As i said the top is magnificent, but the wii software lineup is just saturated with rushed waggle games more than anything......but as i said, the games that devs seem to take their time on IE: Zelda, Galaxy, Metroid, Brawl, Mario Kart the meat and potatos is top notch and could go head to head with ANY game from any system.......but because of the wiis innovation and overnight success (please dont confuse with fad it just took many people an dmost likely devs by storm), many of the lower tier or mediocre games have not been great, imo they are muddled in a sea of similarity and, how "often can i open a jar or chop a tree with my wiimote before i cry" type of feeling.

 

 


 I agree with you and i like the way you explain your veiws, very rational and thought out. I currently own a wii and have quite a few games to pass the time. To tell the truth this Don dude is probably laughing at all of us along with CNET, due to the amount of hits we have given them. Do i think the Wii will be last? I dont give a danm!! just as long as it sells enough to keep Nintendo in the Business then great (sony aswell), and i have no doubt that it will. Its a runaway success in its first year, it sems if nintendo wanted they could quite this gen as early as they want and produce another system with no financial strain (though they won't). Regardless of whether Nintendo come first or last they still win. They set up this generation to be like that. even if Wii's slowed down to what PS3's were selling the lats year or so, they will still be on track to pass gamecube and even the N64. They won the best thing of all, a stable financial future for a few more years!



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BornFirst. said:
steverhcp02 said:
mancandy said:

well YOU may have played through them but as per sales they really arent tearing up the charts. My point was theres those MASSIVE awesome games in their selective genres that i mentioned (you can probably throw RE4 in there too, imo) and i never really said much about 3rd party support at all, not sure why youre talking about that. And the fact i mentioned the big daddies and they were all 1st party games isnt a bad thing at all, Nintendo can rely on those games forever, they are nintendo, correlation of a product with great games is WHY nintendo is nintendo. for every COD 3 or Medal of honor on wii we have, darkness,COD 4, COD3, Orange Box, timeshift, UT3, resistance, rainbow 6, medal of honor, blacksite, jericho, ghost recon, fear, soldier of fortune.........wii has red steel, far cry, cod 3, medal of honor, metroid........theres not as much depth there sure, metroid may trump MANY if not all of the PS3 games, but for the systems being alive essentially the same time there just isnt as much depth.

2K sports games, The Show, NBA 07 and 08 theres more sporting options as well. As i said the top is magnificent, but the wii software lineup is just saturated with rushed waggle games more than anything......but as i said, the games that devs seem to take their time on IE: Zelda, Galaxy, Metroid, Brawl, Mario Kart the meat and potatos is top notch and could go head to head with ANY game from any system.......but because of the wiis innovation and overnight success (please dont confuse with fad it just took many people an dmost likely devs by storm), many of the lower tier or mediocre games have not been great, imo they are muddled in a sea of similarity and, how "often can i open a jar or chop a tree with my wiimote before i cry" type of feeling.

 

 


I agree with you and i like the way you explain your veiws, very rational and thought out. I currently own a wii and have quite a few games to pass the time. To tell the truth this Don dude is probably laughing at all of us along with CNET, due to the amount of hits we have given them. Do i think the Wii will be last? I dont give a danm!! just as long as it sells enough to keep Nintendo in the Business then great (sony aswell), and i have no doubt that it will. Its a runaway success in its first year, it sems if nintendo wanted they could quite this gen as early as they want and produce another system with no financial strain (though they won't). Regardless of whether Nintendo come first or last they still win. They set up this generation to be like that. even if Wii's slowed down to what PS3's were selling the lats year or so, they will still be on track to pass gamecube and even the N64. They won the best thing of all, a stable financial future for a few more years!


 i think theyre good .  And i think theyre good for the next decade to be honest

and thats teh thing, if youre happy with it then hell yeah it doesnt matter, but we dont come to forums to have circle jerks (at least i dont) i like discussing and debating as long as its kept civil and mature and accurate as far as debates go.......and thanks for the compliment on my explanations, im hoping if i post more often my views will over shadow some PS3 trolls and give my fellow system owners a good rep. here



mancandy said:
steverhcp02 said:

The thing i cant stand is that people just are so intolerant of opinions against teh wii here. Boilermaker an dmyself both acknowledge the tremendous success of the wii. But just because the type of software (wii sports, wii play, waggle)isnt for us doesnt make us fanboys or stupid.

SMG, Metroid, Zelda 3 big boys, great games 3 different genres.....but theres not a lot of depth, i think thats the argument. But that said it clearly doesnt matter because for people who enjoy wii sports, raving rabids, wario etc. those 3 games plus the other minigame centric titles make it tremendous.

You can have your opinion, but stop making stupid generalizations. There are more games on the Wii than just SMG, Metroid, and Zelda. Funny how you only mention first party games, like that's the only thing the Wii has. Third party support is better than ever. I've already played through, Call of Duty 3, Medal of Honor 2, RE4, Zack & Wiki, Tiger Woods 07, Madden 08, SSX Blur. So please don't tell me the Wii only has party games and lack depth, it's ridiculous.

 


You repeatedly called me a fanboy, yet I openly acknowledge the success of the Wii.  I think you're confused.

Anyway, yeah, I mentioned mostly first party titles, but let's make a rundown of your 3rd party list. COD3 is on PS3/Xbox/360, MOH2 is on PSP, RE4 is on PS2, Tiger Woods is on everything, same with Madden 08. So when it comes to the 3rd party, what's the incentive to buy a Wii again? For Zack and Wiki? Didn't I acknowledge that game also?

I think I was VERY specific when I posted. I basically said "Wii sales phenomally because it caters to a much wider audience, but the majority of its' games don't cater to myself, and many others" That's the gist of what I was trying to say. That's not fanboyism, that's preference. And the claim of "all the games flat out suck"....never said that. I said that most of the games are family oriented, yet I find games like MGS and Halo to be more in my taste. Once again, not fanboyism, but rather, preference. But if you REALLY want to take it that far:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/scores/

How many games got above an 80? Now cross out the ones that are multiplatform. That leaves 9 games, 3 of which are 3rd party (should you even consider MLB Power Pros?). So it really does look like the Nintendo family is what's carrying the system, when it comes to core gamers.

Why can't I be critical of the Wii without being blasted? I've stated the obvious over and over. Casual market, not my taste in games, blah blah blah, yet I'm a fanboy? I say time and time again that it is and will be a successful console, but I'm not getting one, so I'm a fanboy? I'm starting to believe that around here, if you don't like the Wii you are considered a fanboy by default.



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