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Forums - General Discussion - Islam and Christianity are almost the same!

babuks said:
valleyshrew said:

A few questions for you peace loving muslims:
1. Do you accept homosexuals deserve to live and not be harassed?
2. Have you read the Qu'ran and Sunnah?
3. Do you accept the holocaust happened?
4. Do you accept evolution happens?
5. Do you think it is right to kill someone who leaves islam?
6. Is it right to stone to death an adulterer?
7. Is it good that 68% of Punjabi girls have been molested?
8. Must non-muslims refrain from all criticisms of Islam or warrant beheading?


I would like to answer a few:

1. If it is an Islamic country, there is no place for homosexuals. Do you have place for Child Pornography? No! How did you draw line between a homosexual and child pornographer? Your drawing this line is based on what you think right and what you don't. Likewise, Islam also thinks in certain way.

Are you seriously asking how one draws the line between a child being used for sex and two consenting adults deciding to have sex? It's not like Christianity embraces the whole issue either, plenty of harassment from them too. I don't think religious acceptance is going to be easy. But if you protest that gay people don't deserve to live, don't be surprised that yours is being perceived as an extremist's view. Christians having the same ambitions are perceived the same way, and giving a bad name to Christianity.

2. I read the Quran and Sunnah (there are 6 books of Sunnah/Hadith and I read them all). I am not a native Arab but I learned Arabic for this very purpose.

3. Not a sane muslim would support it. Quran says, if you kill one human being without justification, it is as though you killed the whole of humanity.

Justification is just a point of view. Like with point 1, you can have your point of view. If you live in a country where that point of view is backed up by the law (or at least not prosecuted by it), then even better. Others have their point of view as well though, so especially when it comes to morally inspired killings, you cannot expect others who view that as unjust to accept your views (and if they stem from Islam, to accept Islam's rules) as pure.

4. I don't believe it happened and I have doubt it was a fact. Rather it is a theory disbelieved by many non-Muslim scholars of the west also.

5. Do you believe it is right to punish a deserter from Army?

Don't do yourself the disservice of giving that example. Unless you really view yourself and the others belonging to Islam as an army. An army isn't associated with peace. Soldiers take orders so more the pity if you were born into this army without ever evaluating anything for yourself.

6. It may be hard for you to understand why adultery is so bad in Islam. Look at the people cheat their wives and then get caught. What goes through the minds of those women. Even some consider having more than one girlfriend wrong! There are differences of opinion so don't just point towards Islams.

7. Islam is not responsible for the wrongdoing of any individual or group. By the way, what is your view about the high rape rate in the west including child molesting inspite the fact that sex is open there.

8. Islam is a pure religion as per the believe of the Muslims. You can't leave this community. Like you behead the person commit treason.

The question here was about non-Muslims, not people who left it. Like I am. Criticising some of your views now, not agreeing with them, not seeing them as pure, just etc.

If you want to get more knowledge about these things, just listen to Dr. Zakir Naik's lecture or Ahmad Deedat's lecture. Youtube has plenty of it. These are very useful lectures for people who want to know the truth of religions including Islam and Christianity. They quote the books and give you the answers.

Those were some pretty good questions. Mind you, I don't think Christianity fares much better, or has before. It's had its crusades, dogmas, executions, forcing itself on others etc, and still has some very questionable stuff. But you know, if someone were to read the Bible today and demand everything to happen as commanded there, he'd be way beyond extremism to the common Christian believer. If your answers are those of a middle-ground Muslim, then all religion aside, majority of the West won't accept them put into practice, and will feel free to judge those practices (point 8).

But as for mocking, which was the initial spark, it's just immature my-god-vs-your-god banter. Hopefully OP can ignore them as such.

edited since I didn't realize it wasn't OP answering the questions, my bad.



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dib8rman said:

5. Muslims do hate jews and christians and one person saying that they don't wont change the last 1300 years of hating that is still exercised today in islam and it's other forms.

Christians hate Jews much more than Muslims do. Please check my previous post if you want a massacre example from 16th century in Iberia, or check very recent history if you want an example from 20th century.

Christians killed many more Jews in their 2000 year old history than relatively VERY normal relations that the Muslims had with them since 7th century.

Here is the opening sentence of wiki entry "Relations between Catholicism and Judaism":
As a reaction to the Holocaust, many theologians, religious historians, and educators dedicated their efforts to seek reconciliation between Christians and Jews. By reconciliation it was meant that Christianity sought to understand how its antisemitic teachings over millennia contributed to the Holocaust, to ensure it did not happen again.

And the Muslims only have problem with the state of Israel, not with the Jews altogether.

 



richardhutnik said:

Ok, since a Muslim is writing this, it would make sense they don't see why there wouldn't be much difference.  The issues where Muslims deny what the gospels and New Testament texts say about Jesus pretty much undermines what makes Christianity what it is.  All the other stuff ends up, whether it be Adventists, or some other group, the basics of Jesus being the Son of God, and dying and returning is there (even in Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses).  Ok, this being said, here is where Islam ends up deviating from Christianity, and rendering Christianity pointless:

* Denial of the incarnation of God as man.  This has multiple effects that make the Christian message not work.  First, a Muslim will end up saying man is not made in the image of God.  Islam says it is wrong wrong, eventhough Genesis says it is.  The idea of people being children of God is foreign in Islam.  God is not Father, God is Master.  We are just his servants.  And God has no sons according to Islam.  No way Jesus is even the Son of God.

* The focus of Islam is on submission, not love.  One can say one loves God in Islam, but that isn't the core.  The core is submission, and obedience (Islam mean submission).  Christians submit out of love to God.  Also, love for others also stems from humans being made in the image of God, and being like God, and this love being a reflection of what one thinks of God.

* Islam denies the death of Christ, and with it, the resurrection.  In Islam, Jesus is considered sinless, but there is no way a just God allows a sinless prophet to die.  Death and sin are not overcome through the death and resurrection of Christ.  There is no victory.

* Islam speaks of personal Jihad people do to overcome sin and temptation, but there is NOTHING about the human condition having issues that makes this battle not really doable without God's help.  There is no imparting of the Spirit of God to empower a person to overcoming sin.  And there is NOTHING resembling the western Christian concept of original sin either, or the Eastern tradition that humans are under a curse (a bit different from original sin).  In Islam, everything is because of faulty texts.  If you just give people the perfect text, the Qu'ran, then the issue of overcoming sin will be dealt with just fine.

* Jesus, AT LEAST, needs to be THE Messiah in the Christian faith, and this be understood.  This is understood to be savior, and deliverer.  In Islam, yes Jesus is The Messiah, but no one knows what it means.  People speculate what it means, but there is argument that it doesn't mean savior, because God alone saves.  Calling Jesus Lord would likely be straight out also.  Without having a clue what Jesus as Messiah means, it is hard to do anything resembling Christianity.

* Lastly, the Old and New Testaments are considered corrupted in Islam.  I would be interested in seeing a Muslim take the New Testament text and blot out those texts that are wrong and see what is left.  Not sure much would be.  Also, the question of why the Quran is perfect, but the other texts aren't also begs the question also. of how that would work. 

So, on the surface, it would seem they are similar.  But, by making Jesus an unessential and an afterthought just touched on in the Quran, makes it really hard to considered they are similar. I also think a Muslim would find it outright weird to think of a group of some people of The Book, to be part of Christ's body. After all, why would a prophet have a body made up of people of the Book.


I don't know much about Islam but if this is true then Islam and Christianity aren't even close.



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"Are you seriously asking how one draws the line between a child being used for sex and two consenting adults deciding to have sex? It's not like Christianity embraces the whole issue either, plenty of harassment from them too. I don't think religious acceptance is going to be easy. But if you protest that gay people don't deserve to live, don't be surprised that yours is being perceived as an extremist's view. Christians having the same ambitions are perceived the same way, and giving a bad name to Christianity."

 

That was one sample for you. If you don't agree with it, just get another example. Again, how to do you think sex with a 16 year old is illegal and with 18 years not illegal? How do you draw that line? Don't the 16 years girls understand and have physical capability of having it?

 

"Don't do yourself the disservice of giving that example. Unless you really view yourself and the others belonging to Islam as an army. An army isn't associated with peace. Soldiers take orders so more the pity if you were born into this army without ever evaluating anything for yourself."

Why not? A person enters into the Army of his own choice. Again, who said an Army isn't associated with peace? The basic purpose of an Army is to protect the country, don't you know it? And protecting the country brings peace, isn't it?

 

The question here was about non-Muslims, not people who left it. Like I am. Criticising some of your views now, not agreeing with them, not seeing them as pure, just etc.

 

Can you tell me why the BBC RJ was suspended for preaching false death news of the Queen as a joke? When Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) is drawn as a terrorist while he preached peace in his entire life, the cartoonist is not punished and it is viewed as a freedom of speech thing. Do you see the double standard Muslims are victim of?

If you want to criticize, you have to be constructive. What is so constructive in criticizing the Prophet falsely?

 

Also, the question of why the Quran is perfect, but the other texts aren't also begs the question also. of how that would work. 

Because history says so and so do the experts. Read how the Quran was preserved and how the Bible was not. The Bible's manuscript is found in Greek and not in its original language. You can't even be sure if that translation is ok. The last manuscript in Greek is found after 200 years of Jesus' (Peace be upon him) alleged crucifiction.

But Quran was preserved right from the time of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and it was memorized by thousands of his companions. From then on, Millions of Muslims memorize the Quran. So, if you burn down all the books of Quran, these people can bring the texts back without even a single mistake. Memorizing those 6000 verses is not a simple task, no other religion has such thing. Why, because Allah says in the Quran, I have brought down the Quran and I will preserve it. So he is preserving it in this way.



no shit i knew that when i was 11. most christian people arent that religious, also people are racist, they think arabs live in deserts, whent hey mock the word allah, they were probably doing that because when muslims pray they say it for a long time.



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Congratulations. You discovered that all major monotheistic religions are based from the same time period, same scriptures, and same God.

Changes your opinion of this "conflict", doesn't it? The religions have gone their separate directions over the past several thousand years but at the core, they share many things in common (despite what some religious fanatics would try to tell you).




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@OP:

You said this:

"I guess the reason Muslims take it literally because the Quran is actually quite scientific. If you want to know more of the science of quran visit this webiste if you want http://www.quranandscience.com"

I heard that once before, and then i heard from Richard Dawkins that in a muslim school in England, they're teaching kids that sea water and fresh water don't mix because it's in the Qur'an, then i researched and found about the text of the Qur'am that says about the "divider partition between the rivers and the seas"... Now, that text has nothing to do with mixing sea water and fresh water, and what i don't get is that if muslims are extremely sure that the Qur'am is scientific, why not do experiments and use the scientific methods, like mixing the two types of water and do tests about the result.



I forgot to ask another question:

What do you guys think about Matt Stone and Trey Parker (South Park creators)?



okean said:
dib8rman said:

5. Muslims do hate jews and christians and one person saying that they don't wont change the last 1300 years of hating that is still exercised today in islam and it's other forms.

Christians hate Jews much more than Muslims do. Please check my previous post if you want a massacre example from 16th century in Iberia, or check very recent history if you want an example from 20th century.

Christians killed many more Jews in their 2000 year old history than relatively VERY normal relations that the Muslims had with them since 7th century.

Here is the opening sentence of wiki entry "Relations between Catholicism and Judaism":
As a reaction to the Holocaust, many theologians, religious historians, and educators dedicated their efforts to seek reconciliation between Christians and Jews. By reconciliation it was meant that Christianity sought to understand how its antisemitic teachings over millennia contributed to the Holocaust, to ensure it did not happen again.

And the Muslims only have problem with the state of Israel, not with the Jews altogether.

 


1.  So your going to ignore the castratings, kidnappings, conscripting, beheadings, genocides, rapes, slaughters, germ warfares and various other (now considered crimes against humanity) blessings Muhhamadan Islam has put the Jewish folk through just so they could live in their conquered homelands?

2. Wiki entries without citations especially one that is saying things like ", many theologians, religious historians, and educators..." are pointless, I can do it too:

"Many chefs, geologists and presidents believe that Mars is made from cheese and so Martians come in variaties of Swiss cheese."

3. I'm not going tit for tat with you on who hated who first though, since that wasn't even my arguement, my point is that Muslims put a heavy tax on the people they conquered,  Jews were amungst the first to be conquered. =/

4. As for the issue with Israel, that's an issue with your Quran, never was Israel mentioned as a holy city in the Quran and in this way it holds no value to Muhhamadan Arabic Muslims, Muhhamadan Arabic Muslims holy land is Mecca at the Ka' bah'.  But because the Muhmmadan Arabic Male Muslim is trained and raised in a conqueres mentality down to even their women they can not fathom that Israel may belong to someone other than a Muhhamadan Arabic Muslim, they cannot or may never come to terms that the land was lost by the Jewish folk to the Muhhmadan Arabic Muslim  then the Muhhamadan Muslim lost it to the Allied Forces who gave it back to the Jewish folk.

The Jews by 1944 were without a nation because the Otto had conquered it and made it unlivable for any non-Islamic.

In Afphgan today there is only "1" damn catholic church and it's located in a freakn embassy. I don't even know if their are any synagogue in afphgan doubt it though. Muslim countries are notorious for this. But in American and Europe you can find many Mosques.



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babuks said:
valleyshrew said:

A few questions for you peace loving muslims:
1. Do you accept homosexuals deserve to live and not be harassed?
2. Have you read the Qu'ran and Sunnah?
3. Do you accept the holocaust happened?
4. Do you accept evolution happens?
5. Do you think it is right to kill someone who leaves islam?
6. Is it right to stone to death an adulterer?
7. Is it good that 68% of Punjabi girls have been molested?
8. Must non-muslims refrain from all criticisms of Islam or warrant beheading?


I would like to answer a few:

1. If it is an Islamic country, there is no place for homosexuals. Do you have place for Child Pornography? No! How did you draw line between a homosexual and child pornographer? Your drawing this line is based on what you think right and what you don't. Likewise, Islam also thinks in certain way.

2. I read the Quran and Sunnah (there are 6 books of Sunnah/Hadith and I read them all). I am not a native Arab but I learned Arabic for this very purpose.

3. Not a sane muslim would support it. Quran says, if you kill one human being without justification, it is as though you killed the whole of humanity.

4. I don't believe it happened and I have doubt it was a fact. Rather it is a theory disbelieved by many non-Muslim scholars of the west also.

5. Do you believe it is right to punish a deserter from Army?

6. It may be hard for you to understand why adultery is so bad in Islam. Look at the people cheat their wives and then get caught. What goes through the minds of those women. Even some consider having more than one girlfriend wrong! There are differences of opinion so don't just point towards Islams.

7. Islam is not responsible for the wrongdoing of any individual or group. By the way, what is your view about the high rape rate in the west including child molesting inspite the fact that sex is open there.

8. Islam is a pure religion as per the believe of the Muslims. You can't leave this community. Like you behead the person commit treason.

 

If you want to get more knowledge about these things, just listen to Dr. Zakir Naik's lecture or Ahmad Deedat's lecture. Youtube has plenty of it. These are very useful lectures for people who want to know the truth of religions including Islam and Christianity. They quote the books and give you the answers.

And people ask me why I don't like religion...



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