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Forums - General Discussion - The MYTH of American Islamophobia

theprof00 on 26 August 2010
thismeintiel said:

You honestly think American's feel they are at war with the muslim religion?  Every American knows we are at war with radical Islam, not just Islam all together.  Well, except for maybe the 150 or so a year who are dumb enough to commit hate crimes.  I mean, otherwise, you wouldn't have 155 hate crimes a year, you would have thousands, if not millions.  You would have also seen a huge backlash and violence against against Muslims when the Fort Hood shooting occured.  But, you didn't.

What I don't understand is it seems like you feel we should outlaw protests, or in other words, amend the Constitution so that people can't speak their mind.  You can't have it both ways.  "This group I support has every right to express themselves in anyway they see fit."  "Oh, but this group I don't support must remain quiet about their disagreements with what the other group is doing."  It doesn't work that way.  Nor should it.


And, pharoah just proved my point. This is a battle. That's all it is.



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Pharaoh on 26 August 2010
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??



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theprof00 on 26 August 2010
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??

Well, we drew them anyway, didn't we?



Xbbjf9s on 26 August 2010
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??

Polls are bs, they call landlines and totally forget those who just have cell phones. They didn't kill anyone extremists calling themselves muslims did, if you knew anything about the religion you would know that killing buildings full of people doesn't get you all those sexy virgins.



SeriousWB on 26 August 2010
FootballFan said:

A phobia is an irrational fear. A small percentage of spiders are harmful that leads to people having the fear. A small amount of Muslims are terrorists. Sure it is an irrational fear but considering the same principles of any other fear, it is bound to occur when terrorists (specifically Islamic) seem to be in a greater abundance than ever.

Here is an example, there was recently an explosion near where I live. The person thought it was a terrorists attacking, it is just an instilled reaction from what has happened to the West from a minority of brainwashed (insert word here) people from the east killing or fighting in the name of allah to kill/harm the infedels.

EDIT: When other (minorities from other) religious groups start blowing themselves up, there will clearly be irrational fears coming from that. *Irish Catholics i'm staring at you!*

Just need to say that that is not the reason for a phobia at all.  People don't have arachnaphobia just because there are deadly spiders in the world.  You can be fully aware that a spider is harmless yet still be petrified.  Being afraid of them because a small percentage of them are dangerous would be much more rational.



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badgenome on 26 August 2010
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
PizzaFaceGamer said:

When Muslim fanatics kill Americans (after, say, the Fort Hood slaughter) a reflexive response from the Obama administration is to fret over anti-Islamic backlash.

Obama and Co. automatically proclaim that such orchestrated terrorist attacks are “isolated” events. But when it comes to mainstream Americans, veterans, ObamaCare opponents or (shudder) tea partiers, there’s no generalization too broad or too insulting for the left.

This x1000.

That's the second time today you've made this implication that the left is guilty of something that the right isn't. I'm certainly not fabricating the people walking around with signs saying "Islam Kills."

Yes, and...? Many of the very same people who say that no one should care about the location of this mosque because all Muslims can't be blamed for the actions of a few, and who have no problem with the ridiculous assertion that the Fort Hood shooter, the Christmas Day underwear bomber, and the would be Times Square bomber are all "isolated incidents", are very eager to blame everyone on "the other side" for the actions of one man who attacked his cab driver.

I mean, I'm not shocked or anything. Calling people racists and bigots is all the left ever seems to do. That's why with all the hullabaloo about the "racist" tea party, all I can ever think about is how Obama's surrogates smeared the Clintons and Geraldine Ferraro of all people as racists during the primary (post-racial president, my aching ass). Sure, bigots exist, but the left has been the boy who cried wolf for a long time now.



nobodyspecial on 26 August 2010
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
PizzaFaceGamer said:

When Muslim fanatics kill Americans (after, say, the Fort Hood slaughter) a reflexive response from the Obama administration is to fret over anti-Islamic backlash.

Obama and Co. automatically proclaim that such orchestrated terrorist attacks are “isolated” events. But when it comes to mainstream Americans, veterans, ObamaCare opponents or (shudder) tea partiers, there’s no generalization too broad or too insulting for the left.

This x1000.

That's the second time today you've made this implication that the left is guilty of something that the right isn't. I'm certainly not fabricating the people walking around with signs saying "Islam Kills."


But Islam does kill, the Koran instructs muslims to kill:

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura  9:5)

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels."

But they shouldn't kill one of their own who has killed a "kafir":

“No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)


However if a muslim stops being a muslim then they're fair game:

“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”  (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)



nobodyspecial on 26 August 2010
Xbbjf9s said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??

Polls are bs, they call landlines and totally forget those who just have cell phones. They didn't kill anyone extremists calling themselves muslims did, if you knew anything about the religion you would know that killing buildings full of people doesn't get you all those sexy virgins.

I suppose Nazis didn't kill anyone either then? They were obviously just extremists calling themselves Nazis...



Xbbjf9s on 26 August 2010
nobodyspecial said:
Xbbjf9s said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??

Polls are bs, they call landlines and totally forget those who just have cell phones. They didn't kill anyone extremists calling themselves muslims did, if you knew anything about the religion you would know that killing buildings full of people doesn't get you all those sexy virgins.

I suppose Nazis didn't kill anyone either then? It was obviously just extremists calling themselves Nazis...

sigh whatever, extremists take something and take it beyond what it should. When you warp something to fit your agenda you are not what you say you are (the crusaders weren't christians).



Kasz216 on 26 August 2010
theprof00 said:
Kasz216 said:
theprof00 said:
Kasz216 said:
theprof00 said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Once again... you are simply not looking at it correctly.

If, radical Christians killed your daughter in an abortion clinic bombing near your work.

How would you feel about an Church being put up right next to said ruins that you have to drive by every day?


The mosque being there will be a sign of america's greatness.

But the greatness that we even protect the rights of people when they use those rights to be giant assholes.

The same as the KKK's right to throwing racist protests is a sign of America's greatness.

I wouldn't do anything about it. I, my family, and my daughter are tragic victims of fate. I wouldn't dare to take revenge by terrorizing the innocent. And I don't deign to think that my actions have any impact on the security of my loved ones or of humanity itself.

Who is "terrorizing the innocent."

If anything this community center is going to "terrorize the innocent" by causing victims and victims families to suffer PTSD attacks.

It's the same reason you wouldn't build a church nearby a burned out abortion clinic.

You wouldn't call these protests terrorizing?

When you see the hate on these people's faces, I'm sure it terrorizes the shit out of the other side, who haven't done anything wrong. They try to control the actions of others through fear. That's the basic definition of the word.

Why haven't they been protesting the mosque that's already right there? 
And let me question you about the ptsd comment.

How do you quantify that into a value? 

Where is the line? How many people do you need to have, and how mentally imbalanced do they need to be? 

If there is one person suffering, does that qualify?

Because of the undefinable nature of your evidence, I find it hard to take into consideration. 

I believe that those people should be allowed to live happy lives, but by your earlier statements comparing one level of violence to another and implying that it wasn't a big deal, they should deal with it. Right?


You do realize your entire arguement in this paragraph has boiled down to "I think the protests are terrorizing... I want everybody to live happily without being terrorized... so let them build this building that will terrorize people."

You're arguement has a HUGE double standard in it.

They haven't been protesting the mosque that's already there because it's

A) Not 15 stories tall.

B) Not going to be visible from ground zero and the most popular access point of ground zero.

No, the size and visibility is just a cover for what it really is. Americans think they have a sway over what happens. They think they are in a direct battle with the muslim religion and that they are warriors for god or whatever other movement they are in.

Look, I'm not trying to start an argument or say that your thoughts are not valid, but I think you would still have something to say if the building was just 4 stories tall and visible from a memorial sculpture.

After 9/11 Americans are scared. They are doing this to reclaim their pride and security. This isn't about some indignity the mosque is creating, this is Americans considering the construction Round 2. That is why the other mosque isn't being protested.


No... they don't.  Most don't.  You are using a strawman arguement to support you're point.

When it's a giant strawman.

People think it's too close to be in good taste.  That's it.

They are protesting it.

Just how people would protest someone who said something racist.  Or should people not protest racists because it's "Terrorizing" them and you don't know how many people were effected by the original racist statement.

Heck, you could be a Hindu religious leader, and it's just common sense that you wouldn't want to build a temple near a gathering place for holocaust surviviors.


It wasn't even the same racial, ethnic or religious group.   However it's the common sense to know "This is going to bother someone."

 

A confederacy muesuem near a black history muesuem.... bad idea.  Confederacy mueseum not a bad idea itself.

A Crusades muesuem near a mosque... also bad idea.

I mean there are hundreds of these cases... and not one of them has to do with "Religious intolerance."

It has everything to do with basic tact and understanding for your fellow man.

 

All in all this shouldn't be an issue because the planners of the community centre should of had the common sense and decency to know this would be a problem, when two more blocks away or so would of still served everyone fine.


If it was Christians I sure know I wouldn't want a 15 story buildign with a cross right there... or anything else similar.