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Forums - General Discussion - The MYTH of American Islamophobia

Xbbjf9s on 26 August 2010
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:

For crying out loud, we need to build this mosque. Not building it is just providing fuel to the terrorists who say America hates Islam. We let them win this way.


We're not fueling any fires for terrorists.  They have all the fuel they need, we're not them.  That simple fact is what fuels their hate and cause.  And nothing we do will stop that hate, because without hate they lose their cause.  Without their cause, they lose power.  And they will see no victory until all "infidels" are either dead or converted.


You're missing the point. This isn't for the terrorists themselves. This is for all the wanna-be radical Islam terrorists. They see America fighting over a mosque and the religion of Islam, and they use this incident to say America hates Islam, which allows them to recruit more people as a persuasion tactic, saying America will try to destroy Islam.

Good point, and incidents like in my other threads helps make the point.



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thismeintiel on 26 August 2010
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:

For crying out loud, we need to build this mosque. Not building it is just providing fuel to the terrorists who say America hates Islam. We let them win this way.


We're not fueling any fires for terrorists.  They have all the fuel they need, we're not them.  That simple fact is what fuels their hate and cause.  And nothing we do will stop that hate, because without hate they lose their cause.  Without their cause, they lose power.  And they will see no victory until all "infidels" are either dead or converted.


You're missing the point. This isn't for the terrorists themselves. This is for all the wanna-be radical Islam terrorists. They see America fighting over a mosque and the religion of Islam, and they use this incident to say America hates Islam, which allows them to recruit more people as a persuasion tactic, saying America will try to destroy Islam.

I think you're missing the point.  They don't need excuses to recruit people.  They get them when they are young and brainwash them with their radical beliefs, using lies and deceit.  It's the same tatic the Nazi's used.  If it wasn't this topic, they'd find another one.  And if not, they could always just make one up.  As I stated before, they aren't happy till us "infidels" are dead or converted.  The ends always justify the means.



 

nobodyspecial on 26 August 2010
Kasz216 said:
nobodyspecial said:
Xbbjf9s said:
nobodyspecial said:
Xbbjf9s said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:
theprof00 said:
Pharaoh said:

How quickly people forget 9/11.  I'll never forget the whole Muslim world celebrating this on TV and in print media.  It was a badge of honor and rallying cry.  Label me as a "right wing nutjob", you are not building a mosque anywhere around ground zero.  You can argue sensibly that this mosque is open to everyone and its a symbol of peace, its bullshit.  Its going to be spit in the face of America.  Muslims around the world will flock to this mosque to praise at their "greatest accomplishment". 

This kind of reaction is what makes muslims think we are afraid of them.

"Greatest accomplishment"

We brought the modern world to it's knees. We created the industrial revolution. Our tech and cutting edge products advance humanity further than it has ever gone. Our medical and warfare are bar none the top in the world. Our average citizens live like GODS.

Let them build their mosque. We are such a great nation, that they will never rival us. Constructing a 100m $ mosque on our land is exactly what makes our country the #1 place in the world. Look at the statue of liberty, "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free." Construction of the mosque will create jobs and it will keep kids off the street. This is the foundation of american principle. 

We aren't afraid of them, its the point of not letting them "win".  Everyone knows we could roll through all their countries whenever we wanted, its not about our supremacy.   If they build this, it will be a victory for them.  I remember 9/11 very vividly, I was about to fly out of Newark when it happened.  I don't care if the people building it aren't connected in anyway with the terroists.  Its still spit in the face of every family and every American.

And yet while they spit in our face, they will be buying our music, watching our movies, and buying our food, while our soldiers liberate their countries and providing food and shelter to their refuges.

Yes, but they can do that anyway regardless.  That's not the point.  Its the point of building a mosque near Ground Zero.  That's the point.  We(pretty much every american I think the poll numbers are above 70%) don't want this.  You can build it anywhere you want, just not there.  That's the point. 

The people building this mosque can see that THE WHOLE COUNTRY doesn't want them to build it YET they continue to do so. THE ONLY issue here is that people(the pundits, liberal newsman) say that we(americans) are intolerate because we don't want them to build the mosque.  BUT the fact is that this muslims are the ones that are being intolerate and insensitive to every american.  They are the ones being intolerant and insensitive. 

Why do Muslims get the free pass?  WHY?  We can't draw Mohammed because it offends them, BUT they can build a mosque right next to where they killed our friends, family, mothers, sons and daughters, and I AM supposed to feel ashamed.  WHY are they the victims??

Polls are bs, they call landlines and totally forget those who just have cell phones. They didn't kill anyone extremists calling themselves muslims did, if you knew anything about the religion you would know that killing buildings full of people doesn't get you all those sexy virgins.

I suppose Nazis didn't kill anyone either then? It was obviously just extremists calling themselves Nazis...

sigh whatever, extremists take something and take it beyond what it should. When you warp something to fit your agenda you are not what you say you are (the crusaders weren't christians).


The Crusaders were Christians and they were trying to protect the world from Islam. No doubt all sorts of horrible things happened however that was 1000 years ago when life was generally more brutal, plus although the Crusaders were fighting in the name of Christianity Jesus never said you should kill for him whereas Mohammed did. The agenda of Islam is to implement sharia law whever it goes and ultimately dominate the world by any means necessary, it's actually "moderates" and the politically correct morons that are warping it to pretend it's "the religion of peace". It's only the religion of peace once all have submitted and those that refused are dead.

No they weren't.  They were Christians who realized war was ALWAYS beneficial to the agressor and ALWAYS damaging to the defender, so they needed to export their war to another place allied, so they didn't get stuck in constant warfare vs each other.

Religions have always changed for political will.

It's really far beyond the point and not worth debating though since there are flaws on a much more basic level with building said thing there.


Islam was sweeping across the Middle East and heading for Europe slaughtering all who wouldn't submit including Christians on pilgrimages to the Holy Land. If it wasn't for the Crusaders the whole world might be islamic by now.



Tigerlure on 26 August 2010
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:

For crying out loud, we need to build this mosque. Not building it is just providing fuel to the terrorists who say America hates Islam. We let them win this way.


We're not fueling any fires for terrorists.  They have all the fuel they need, we're not them.  That simple fact is what fuels their hate and cause.  And nothing we do will stop that hate, because without hate they lose their cause.  Without their cause, they lose power.  And they will see no victory until all "infidels" are either dead or converted.


You're missing the point. This isn't for the terrorists themselves. This is for all the wanna-be radical Islam terrorists. They see America fighting over a mosque and the religion of Islam, and they use this incident to say America hates Islam, which allows them to recruit more people as a persuasion tactic, saying America will try to destroy Islam.

I think you're missing the point.  They don't need excuses to recruit people.  They get them when they are young and brainwash them with their radical beliefs, using lies and deceit.  It's the same tatic the Nazi's used.  If it wasn't this topic, they'd find another one.  And if not, they could always just make one up.

Don't you understand, THIS is one of their excuses. THIS is what they will use to brainwash them. THIS will become part of their tactics. Building this mosque would show religious tolerance and show the terrorist we are unwavering in our faith of diversity as a country.



nobodyspecial on 26 August 2010
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:

For crying out loud, we need to build this mosque. Not building it is just providing fuel to the terrorists who say America hates Islam. We let them win this way.


We're not fueling any fires for terrorists.  They have all the fuel they need, we're not them.  That simple fact is what fuels their hate and cause.  And nothing we do will stop that hate, because without hate they lose their cause.  Without their cause, they lose power.  And they will see no victory until all "infidels" are either dead or converted.


You're missing the point. This isn't for the terrorists themselves. This is for all the wanna-be radical Islam terrorists. They see America fighting over a mosque and the religion of Islam, and they use this incident to say America hates Islam, which allows them to recruit more people as a persuasion tactic, saying America will try to destroy Islam.

I think you're missing the point.  They don't need excuses to recruit people.  They get them when they are young and brainwash them with their radical beliefs, using lies and deceit.  It's the same tatic the Nazi's used.  If it wasn't this topic, they'd find another one.  And if not, they could always just make one up.

Don't you understand, THIS is one of their excuses. THIS is what they will use to brainwash them. THIS will become part of their tactics. Building this mosque would show religious tolerance and show the terrorist we are unwavering in our faith of diversity as a country.


Islamic terrorism has been going strong for around 1500 years, I seriously doubt the acceptance of a mosque near ground zero will defeat it! The way to defeat it is to declare Islam what it is, an evil cult that's not a valid religion, and state in no uncertain terms that we won't tolerate it anymore. People can believe whatever the hell they like individually but the preaching of Islam should be treated like the preaching of Nazism or anything that's been declared a dangerous cult. Not only should the "ground zero" mosque not be built but all others should be knocked down. If muslims don't like it then they can go and live in an islamic country, that's what they ultimately want anyway isn't it? And if it isn't then why are they muslims?



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mhsillen on 26 August 2010
Rath said:
nobodyspecial said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
PizzaFaceGamer said:

When Muslim fanatics kill Americans (after, say, the Fort Hood slaughter) a reflexive response from the Obama administration is to fret over anti-Islamic backlash.

Obama and Co. automatically proclaim that such orchestrated terrorist attacks are “isolated” events. But when it comes to mainstream Americans, veterans, ObamaCare opponents or (shudder) tea partiers, there’s no generalization too broad or too insulting for the left.

This x1000.

That's the second time today you've made this implication that the left is guilty of something that the right isn't. I'm certainly not fabricating the people walking around with signs saying "Islam Kills."


But Islam does kill, the Koran instructs muslims to kill:

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura  9:5)

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels."

But they shouldn't kill one of their own who has killed a "kafir":

“No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)


However if a muslim stops being a muslim then they're fair game:

“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”  (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)


And the Bible instructs Christians to stone disobedient children. Moderates of both religions know what rules not to follow.


Actually after Jesus the mosaic law was not used any more which is what you are refering to. Now it is all about following the 10 commandments.  So the kill children is taken out of context and not applicible in our day for christians.



mhsillen on 26 August 2010
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:
thismeintiel said:
Tigerlure said:

For crying out loud, we need to build this mosque. Not building it is just providing fuel to the terrorists who say America hates Islam. We let them win this way.


We're not fueling any fires for terrorists.  They have all the fuel they need, we're not them.  That simple fact is what fuels their hate and cause.  And nothing we do will stop that hate, because without hate they lose their cause.  Without their cause, they lose power.  And they will see no victory until all "infidels" are either dead or converted.


You're missing the point. This isn't for the terrorists themselves. This is for all the wanna-be radical Islam terrorists. They see America fighting over a mosque and the religion of Islam, and they use this incident to say America hates Islam, which allows them to recruit more people as a persuasion tactic, saying America will try to destroy Islam.

I think you're missing the point.  They don't need excuses to recruit people.  They get them when they are young and brainwash them with their radical beliefs, using lies and deceit.  It's the same tatic the Nazi's used.  If it wasn't this topic, they'd find another one.  And if not, they could always just make one up.  As I stated before, they aren't happy till us "infidels" are dead or converted.  The ends always justify the means.


They look at America and consider the people morally bankrupt. That in it's self is enough for them with strict adherence to the Koran.  Evil satans all of us.  The Mosque has nothing to do with it other than to give them a big laugh when it is complete, the irony



superchunk on 26 August 2010
nobodyspecial said:


But Islam does kill, the Koran instructs muslims to kill:

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura  9:5)

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels."

But they shouldn't kill one of their own who has killed a "kafir":

“No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)


However if a muslim stops being a muslim then they're fair game:

“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”  (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)

I've read a few of your posts since I was gone and wow you are so ignorant in not only history of the middle east but also of Islam itself. I'm going to address this post as well as some comments you made in others.

1. Muhammad was not a pedofile. Of his wives only one was a virgin let alone would be considered underage by TODAY'S standards. Everyone else was previously married and generally widows from the wars of his time. The one girl he married that was young was around 13 or so when they married and that was not uncommon during 600's AD. Hell, some modern western nations have it at 13 today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe).

2. Muhammad, as well as Islam, never ordered the murder of people who are not Muslim. The Quran forbades murder as the death of any human is like the death of all of humanity. The quotes you list above, you obviously pulled from a anti-islamic website, are taken out of context. Every quote about killing 'infidels' in the Quran relates war. Not just because they are not Muslim. On top of that the Quran has strict rules about war such as:

a) You cannot start a war unless it is in the defense of self or others. As God does not like the aggressor.
b) You must follow a list of humane treatment of prisoners of war (this list is essentially identical to today's geneva convention rules)
c) You cannot harm livestock, women, children, or farms/fields in any way; only other military combatants.

If you actually read the Quran, the verses right before your quotes are talking about current (then) wars with the Arab nonMuslims who continually kept attacking the Muslims living in Medinah at the time. On top of the the Kufr or infidels are not 'nonMuslims', but are anyone without belief which includes Christians and Jews. Who also has another special term call 'People of the Book' as they believed in the same God as Muhammad.

3. The Hadiths you quoted are bs. Hadiths are writings that various groups attribute to Muhammad. However, they are known to not have been written down until hundreds of years after the Prophet was dead because he forbade anyone from writing down anything he said/did that he did not proclaim as coming from God. These Hadiths are different depending on which sect of Islam you follow. They contradict each other and the Quran in soooo many different ways its crazy anyone follows their 'advice'. The Quran also states that Muslims are not allowed to take any book but the Quran as their guide, yet almost all Muslim sects have some version of Hadith literature that they use as a primary source above the Quran, especially those with the most extreamist views such as Taliban.

4. (This might not have been your argument) Crusades were horrible to everyone, including Christians. The crusaders murdered not only many Muslims, but Jews and Christians who didn't properly support them as they passed through thier towns. Crusades burned Mosques and Synagogues as well as turned the holy mount in Jerusalem into a trash heap and horse stable. It wasn't until Salah al-din threw out the last crusaders did the region turn to normalcy for ALL worshipers. In fact he forbade anyone from harming any Christian temple or non-military person, according to real Quranic rules of warfare. During nearly all of Arab controlled Islamic Empire (preOttoman) anyone of any faith lived far better in Islamic lands than they did in Christian Rome (Except Catholics of course).

Your continuous spouting merely proves Islamaphobia exists and continues strongly due to fictional ideas of what Islam is and has been as well as using the same tools to hate Muslims as the extreamists use to convert people to their ways. The only way to stop the Islamaphobia as well as extreamism within Islam is by focusing on truth and not allowing ignorance to prevail.

AT this time I am on my work computer and don't have access to my searchable Quranic links to give you all the direct full quotes to disprove you. But, if you wish I can come back with this at a later time, or you can simply search for a online Quran and read the verses surrounding what you quoted.



superchunk on 26 August 2010
nobodyspecial said:


Islamic terrorism has been going strong for around 1500 years, I seriously doubt the acceptance of a mosque near ground zero will defeat it! The way to defeat it is to declare Islam what it is, an evil cult that's not a valid religion, and state in no uncertain terms that we won't tolerate it anymore. People can believe whatever the hell they like individually but the preaching of Islam should be treated like the preaching of Nazism or anything that's been declared a dangerous cult. Not only should the "ground zero" mosque not be built but all others should be knocked down. If muslims don't like it then they can go and live in an islamic country, that's what they ultimately want anyway isn't it? And if it isn't then why are they muslims?

ANother post full of bs and no historical reality.

Islamic extreamism has only been around for 100 years or so at the most.

During the Dark Ages of Christianity, Islam was the only free place for anyone to live. It was the height of society and science, especially Muslim controlled Spain. Islamic laws originally allowed all people to freely practice their religion so long as they paid thier taxes and didn't openly denounce Islam, meaning saying Islam was the devil etc.

ACtually reading the Quran would prove everything you've found on the interent from biased sites to be horrible wrong. Muslims come to America for the freedoms of life they know the Quran actually teaches and they desire.

God you are so full of hate its scary.



mhsillen on 26 August 2010

Their are 30 Mosques in NYC, it's not like they are meeting in an abandoned subway car underground

They worship freely without worry that the religious icons they hold dear will end up in a jar of piss as art

Maybe superchunk should scold some people on the dangers of catholicphobia