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Forums - General Discussion - Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic Center

Being against this is the same as saying that every Muslim is a terrorist. Now I don't like religion at all, but you can't condemn the entire population because of the actions of a few. Also its 2 blocks away from the site... That's reasonably far away enough.



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Killiana1a said:

@ Commentators who have quoted me,

I apologize for having a difference of opinion. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If this Muslim Mosque is built it symbolizes the greatest of American values in tolerance, freedom of religion, and forgiveness of past transgressions. Admirable, but naive when there are those of the Muslim faith who have proclaimed war with the West and have taken actions going back from the first WTC bombings in 1993, 9/11, the 2004 Madrid train bombing,Beslan, the thwarted British subway bombing, Darfur, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, and on.

This will also be viewed by militant Islamic extremists as capitulation and victory on their part. Imagine if after the Oklahoma City Bombing allowed a white racist church to be built a few blocks from the site? No one would support it because of what it symbolizes.

All these militants needs to be seeing as symbolism is predator drones flying overhead dropping bombs and US Army snipers in pine trees just like Ruby Ridge.

That is all I have to say on this subject.


Hardly naive, it is strategic.  Terrorists are trying to turn this into a war about religion, because people will not abandon religion for their country, in that way they will have a stronger recruiting tool even within the US.  If we are completely tolerant of them then the terrorists have nothing to work off of except for us not bowing to their more extreme policies which the moderate masses aren't interested in anyways.



Armads said:
Killiana1a said:

@ Commentators who have quoted me,

I apologize for having a difference of opinion. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If this Muslim Mosque is built it symbolizes the greatest of American values in tolerance, freedom of religion, and forgiveness of past transgressions. Admirable, but naive when there are those of the Muslim faith who have proclaimed war with the West and have taken actions going back from the first WTC bombings in 1993, 9/11, the 2004 Madrid train bombing,Beslan, the thwarted British subway bombing, Darfur, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, and on.

This will also be viewed by militant Islamic extremists as capitulation and victory on their part. Imagine if after the Oklahoma City Bombing allowed a white racist church to be built a few blocks from the site? No one would support it because of what it symbolizes.

All these militants needs to be seeing as symbolism is predator drones flying overhead dropping bombs and US Army snipers in pine trees just like Ruby Ridge.

That is all I have to say on this subject.


Hardly naive, it is strategic.  Terrorists are trying to turn this into a war about religion, because people will not abandon religion for their country, in that way they will have a stronger recruiting tool even within the US.  If we are completely tolerant of them then the terrorists have nothing to work off of except for us not bowing to their more extreme policies which the moderate masses aren't interested in anyways.

Very good point, I do not disagree. Let me broaden this a little bit with a question:

Were Whites who were silent on Civil Rights in the USA during the Civil Rights era in the 1960s racist?

I don't think so, I just think they came from a generation where you don't talk about religion, politics and sex in the public. A more polite generation to be exact.

Likewise, are those Muslims who are silent on the issue of Islamic extremism complicit in their support for the actions of organizations such as Al Qaeda?

I don't think so. I think they are terrified of speaking up and have mixed feeling due to the West's (mainly US) support of Israel.

The elephant in this debate is Israel. Al Qaeda and others use it as their main excuse to operate as a terrorist organization.

I am one who believes Israel has every right to exist. I acknowledge that Israel gets away with too much state sponsored terrorism in their treatment of the Palestinians, but that does not mean we should expel them from what their religious texts and the Bible describes as their homeland.

Is it as simple as the West not supporting Israel, then all Islamic terrorism would be directed elsewhere? This I wonder about a bit.



Killiana1a said:

This is equivalent to the US building a Japanese shrine dedicated to Emperor Hirohito at Pearl Harbor after the end of World War 2.

Shame on you Obama.

W.T.F.?  These things are nowhere near similar.  The equivalent would be erecting a statue to Osama Bin Laden at Ground Zero.

Should the building of any catholic buildings in London, Manchester, Brighton etc, been banned due to the IRA's terrorist campaign?



Killiana1a said:

@ Commentators who have quoted me,

I apologize for having a difference of opinion. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If this Muslim Mosque is built it symbolizes the greatest of American values in tolerance, freedom of religion, and forgiveness of past transgressions. Admirable, but naive when there are those of the Muslim faith who have proclaimed war with the West and have taken actions going back from the first WTC bombings in 1993, 9/11, the 2004 Madrid train bombing,Beslan, the thwarted British subway bombing, Darfur, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, and on.

This will also be viewed by militant Islamic extremists as capitulation and victory on their part. Imagine if after the Oklahoma City Bombing allowed a white racist church to be built a few blocks from the site? No one would support it because of what it symbolizes.

All these militants needs to be seeing as symbolism is predator drones flying overhead dropping bombs and US Army snipers in pine trees just like Ruby Ridge.

That is all I have to say on this subject.

I think they'd see the banning of the building of mosques, and intolerance toward muslims as a victory, and America sticking two fingers up, by continued tolerance and freedom of religion, as a defeat.

I don't know what news channels you watch (after reading what you've written, i'm guessing Fox "News" though), but the London Underground bombings weren't thwarted.

I would think no-one would support the building of white racist church because it's a white racist church.



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Nomad Blue said:
Killiana1a said:

This is equivalent to the US building a Japanese shrine dedicated to Emperor Hirohito at Pearl Harbor after the end of World War 2.

Shame on you Obama.

W.T.F.?  These things are nowhere near similar.  The equivalent would be erecting a statue to Osama Bin Laden at Ground Zero.

Should the building of any catholic buildings in London, Manchester, Brighton etc, been banned due to the IRA's terrorist campaign?

I have addressed this issue. I was wrong, but I still believe the varying interpretations of the symbolism of a Mosque at Ground Zero has negatives which must be addressed.

I am not opposed to the Mosque per se, I am just worried about how it's existence will be interpreted. That being said, it can be erected in a manner to display all the positives and none of the negatives through having it's congregation be vocal in their opposition to Islamic extremism, hold meetings with other faiths, and on.

As to your question, no. Same "no" goes for the question of "Should evangelical and other far right leaning protestant chuches be banned because they symbolize and bring up memories of the Oklahoma City Bombing, Waco, and Ruby Ridge?"

I was asking a question to enliven the debate, which I am spending the time having to explain myself. I agree to disagree and I hold the right to change my opinion at any time. If I am inconsistent at times, it is because I am working out the arguments on both sides.

As the old saying goes, "Only a fool is one hundred percent sure of himself; the wise constantly doubt their actions."

I am doubting.



Killiana1a said:

@ Commentators who have quoted me,

I apologize for having a difference of opinion. I understand exactly where you are coming from. If this Muslim Mosque is built it symbolizes the greatest of American values in tolerance, freedom of religion, and forgiveness of past transgressions. Admirable, but naive when there are those of the Muslim faith who have proclaimed war with the West and have taken actions going back from the first WTC bombings in 1993, 9/11, the 2004 Madrid train bombing,Beslan, the thwarted British subway bombing, Darfur, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, and on.

This will also be viewed by militant Islamic extremists as capitulation and victory on their part. Imagine if after the Oklahoma City Bombing allowed a white racist church to be built a few blocks from the site? No one would support it because of what it symbolizes.

I agree that the symbolic victory for radical muslims is a bit of a problem but your analogy is flawed since a white racist church (whatever that is lol) would be much more extremist and provocative than just a regular mosque.



From what I've heard they have a few of these multi-million dollar Mosque poping up even in places where there are not many muslims , Tennesse. Isalm is not just a religion but an idealogy that tells you what to wear , where to go,etc. It is also very political.

 While the government can't stop them in the name of religion this doesn't mean people shouldn't stand against this and let their voices be heard. We all know about Greek's Trojan Horse strategy. I think this is a good sign our enemies have gotten a lot smarter.



Killiana1a said:

This is equivalent to the US building a Japanese shrine dedicated to Emperor Hirohito at Pearl Harbor after the end of World War 2.

Shame on you Obama.


Thats it Killiana1a. Tar em all with the same brush !



Smidlee said:

From what I've heard they have a few of these multi-million dollar Mosque poping up even in places where there are not many muslims , Tennesse. Isalm is not just a religion but an idealogy that tells you what to wear , where to go,etc. It is also very political.

 While the government can't stop them in the name of religion this doesn't mean people shouldn't stand against this and let their voices be heard. We all know about Greek's Trojan Horse strategy. I think this is a good sign our enemies have gotten a lot smarter.


Generalizing about Islam really doesn't help your arguments. Certain sects of Islam will tell its people what to wear but others are less strict.



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