By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bethesda: Western RPG “More Realistic” Than JRPGs

 

Bethesda: Western RPG “More Realistic” Than JRPGs

i agree 148 57.14%
 
i disagree 49 18.92%
 
bethesda, lol. oblivion was crap 62 23.94%
 
Total:259

Alistair is lovable if you find dumb and logically insane endearing traits. Morrigan really exposes Alistair for the tool he is in their exchanges.

My beef with Alistair, now that the thread is offtopic, is Alistair is recruit everyone and anything at the beginning of the game, yet is too blind by his own hatred for Loghain to not see the value of Loghain as a Grey Warden. Loghain as the hero of Riverdane who freed Ferelden from Orlais is a very important political figure with many noble supporters, thus it would make sense to have Loghain on your side because of politics and because he is a badass sword and boarder.

Furthermore, how can Alistair not see Loghain abandoning a hopeless battle as a wise military decision? Why would Alistair want to endanger all of Ferelden just because some headstrong, naive King Cailan wanted to fight against overwhelming odds? Loghain made a perfectly rational military decision, eventhough it cost him politically. Alistair not seeing this conveys the depths of his lack of fitness to be king. That is why I always let Anora rule alone or choose to backstab him and marry Anora.

Honestly though,  the most complex character in DA:O is Leliana by a longshot. She undergoes a very dramatic transformation in her character from the start to the end. Alistair on the other hand, does undergo a transformation if you harden him, but is more or less still the same at the Landsmeet as he was right after Ostagar.



Around the Network
voty2000 said:
Carl2291 said:

I know, right.

Super Mutants running around a city wearing dresses and growing to dizzy heights while also screaming at you and trying to shoot you/rip your insides out is super realistic.

 


It's more realistic than taking your turn in a fight :)

Yea, coz no WRPGs have turn based battles.

Oh wait...



"And yet, I've realized that maybe living a "decent" life means you won't ever have a "good" life."

 

I wouldn't call them "more realistic" so much as "less imaginative". 

The main reason why I don't like "Western RPGs" is because they are really action adventure games with extra story and some RPG elements. Most of them are heavily focussed on strong adventure elements (ie. do this or this in order to unlock this or this). Current WRPGs sacrifice many elements that are really the core of the RPG genre; the key element being a turn-based battle system. With the way that the term "RPG" is used to describe a western RPG, almost any current game could be called an RPG; you could call NBA Jam an RPG.

 

The only reason why companies like Bioware call their action adventure games RPGs is because it is a marketing buzz word that dates back to the popularity of RPGs made in Japan in the 80's and 90's.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Killiana1a said:

Alistair is lovable if you find dumb and logically insane endearing traits. Morrigan really exposes Alistair for the tool he is in their exchanges.

My beef with Alistair, now that the thread is offtopic, is Alistair is recruit everyone and anything at the beginning of the game, yet is too blind by his own hatred for Loghain to not see the value of Loghain as a Grey Warden. Loghain as the hero of Riverdane who freed Ferelden from Orlais is a very important political figure with many noble supporters, thus it would make sense to have Loghain on your side because of politics and because he is a badass sword and boarder.

Furthermore, how can Alistair not see Loghain abandoning a hopeless battle as a wise military decision? Why would Alistair want to endanger all of Ferelden just because some headstrong, naive King Cailan wanted to fight against overwhelming odds? Loghain made a perfectly rational military decision, eventhough it cost him politically. Alistair not seeing this conveys the depths of his lack of fitness to be king. That is why I always let Anora rule alone or choose to backstab him and marry Anora.

Honestly though,  the most complex character in DA:O is Leliana by a longshot. She undergoes a very dramatic transformation in her character from the start to the end. Alistair on the other hand, does undergo a transformation if you harden him, but is more or less still the same at the Landsmeet as he was right after Ostagar.

But Alistair represents a bigger proportion of people in the real world than Morrigan does.

There's many more naive, slightly dumb, one sided persons who tend to act on their feelings than there are cold hearted, highly intelligent individuals with rock solid integrity who always stand for what they do.

The key is to portray both types in an interesting and "deep" way while still keeping them relevant for the game and its story, which Dragon Age managed to do perfectly.



Jumpin said:

I wouldn't call them "more realistic" so much as "less imaginative". 

The main reason why I don't like "Western RPGs" is because they are really action adventure games with extra story and some RPG elements. Most of them are heavily focussed on strong adventure elements (ie. do this or this in order to unlock this or this). Current WRPGs sacrifice many elements that are really the core of the RPG genre; the key element being a turn-based battle system. With the way that the term "RPG" is used to describe a western RPG, almost any current game could be called an RPG; you could call NBA Jam an RPG.

 

What?

So a jrpg with always exactly the same characters/plot/combat is more imaginative than any given game?

What are jrpg:s if not adventure games, some of them even have action in them. Maybe a bit added rpg elements. How about FF XIII? I think a role playing game is a game where you really play a role, not just follow a preset path with a lot of boring cutscenes.

Key element of rpg games is turn based battle, why is that? Because you were used to it back in the "good old days" when you were playing jrpg:s with your nes or snes?



Around the Network
Slimebeast said:
Killiana1a said:

Alistair is lovable if you find dumb and logically insane endearing traits. Morrigan really exposes Alistair for the tool he is in their exchanges.

My beef with Alistair, now that the thread is offtopic, is Alistair is recruit everyone and anything at the beginning of the game, yet is too blind by his own hatred for Loghain to not see the value of Loghain as a Grey Warden. Loghain as the hero of Riverdane who freed Ferelden from Orlais is a very important political figure with many noble supporters, thus it would make sense to have Loghain on your side because of politics and because he is a badass sword and boarder.

Furthermore, how can Alistair not see Loghain abandoning a hopeless battle as a wise military decision? Why would Alistair want to endanger all of Ferelden just because some headstrong, naive King Cailan wanted to fight against overwhelming odds? Loghain made a perfectly rational military decision, eventhough it cost him politically. Alistair not seeing this conveys the depths of his lack of fitness to be king. That is why I always let Anora rule alone or choose to backstab him and marry Anora.

Honestly though,  the most complex character in DA:O is Leliana by a longshot. She undergoes a very dramatic transformation in her character from the start to the end. Alistair on the other hand, does undergo a transformation if you harden him, but is more or less still the same at the Landsmeet as he was right after Ostagar.

But Alistair represents a bigger proportion of people in the real world than Morrigan does.

There's many more naive, slightly dumb, one sided persons who tend to act on their feelings than there are cold hearted, highly intelligent individuals with rock solid integrity who always stand for what they do.

The key is to portray both types in an interesting and "deep" way while still keeping them relevant for the game and its story, which Dragon Age managed to do perfectly.

I am no fan of Morrigan believe me. I respect her intelligence, independence and feminism, but her sociopathic tendencies have me wanting to slice her head clean off at times.

Loghain I can empathize with because he felt what he was doing was right in the face of opposition. A largely redeemable character, yet fatally flawed.

Now Leliana and Wynne are more accurate representations of what I would like to see more in women. Both are kind to a fault, compassionate, Leliana has this girl next door charm that I find irresistable, and Wynne has a "I have cougar tendencies," making me want her chest to bust out of her robes everytime I have her in my party.

My favorite though has to be Shale followed by Oghren. Both are so simple and crass in their character, I cannot help but laugh everytime they open their mouth in game.

As for Zevran, he plays the scandalous foreigner to a fault. Sten is along the lines of Shale with his character and dead pan comedic lines, which are quite hilarious when you put him and Morrigan in your party.



I'm assuming they mean the plots are more reasonable then "Go run  around on some quest for some vague but linear reason with giant hair". Like the difference between Superman stories (which can go over the top but look possible in some way), and Dragon Ball Z where the plot lines are mangled and they seem to know how to do everything and where to go. 



19:44:34 Skeezer METAL GEAR ONLINE
19:44:36 Skeezer FAILURE
19:44:51 ABadClown You're right!
19:44:55 ABadClown Hur hur hur
19:45:01 Skeezer i meant
19:45:04 Skeezer YOU ARE A FAILKURE
19:45:08 Skeezer FAILURE*

He's correct, but thats always been quite obvious. Westerners are more into creating fantasy barred by the rules of reality and science. The Japanese do not see the need to ruin the fantasy with reason. The Japanese go beyond the term science fiction, which is what Westerners are primarily barred by aside from fantasy game developers.



Killiana1a said:
Slimebeast said:
Killiana1a said:

Alistair is lovable if you find dumb and logically insane endearing traits. Morrigan really exposes Alistair for the tool he is in their exchanges.

My beef with Alistair, now that the thread is offtopic, is Alistair is recruit everyone and anything at the beginning of the game, yet is too blind by his own hatred for Loghain to not see the value of Loghain as a Grey Warden. Loghain as the hero of Riverdane who freed Ferelden from Orlais is a very important political figure with many noble supporters, thus it would make sense to have Loghain on your side because of politics and because he is a badass sword and boarder.

Furthermore, how can Alistair not see Loghain abandoning a hopeless battle as a wise military decision? Why would Alistair want to endanger all of Ferelden just because some headstrong, naive King Cailan wanted to fight against overwhelming odds? Loghain made a perfectly rational military decision, eventhough it cost him politically. Alistair not seeing this conveys the depths of his lack of fitness to be king. That is why I always let Anora rule alone or choose to backstab him and marry Anora.

Honestly though,  the most complex character in DA:O is Leliana by a longshot. She undergoes a very dramatic transformation in her character from the start to the end. Alistair on the other hand, does undergo a transformation if you harden him, but is more or less still the same at the Landsmeet as he was right after Ostagar.

But Alistair represents a bigger proportion of people in the real world than Morrigan does.

There's many more naive, slightly dumb, one sided persons who tend to act on their feelings than there are cold hearted, highly intelligent individuals with rock solid integrity who always stand for what they do.

The key is to portray both types in an interesting and "deep" way while still keeping them relevant for the game and its story, which Dragon Age managed to do perfectly.

I am no fan of Morrigan believe me. I respect her intelligence, independence and feminism, but her sociopathic tendencies have me wanting to slice her head clean off at times.

Loghain I can empathize with because he felt what he was doing was right in the face of opposition. A largely redeemable character, yet fatally flawed.

Now Leliana and Wynne are more accurate representations of what I would like to see more in women. Both are kind to a fault, compassionate, Leliana has this girl next door charm that I find irresistable, and Wynne has a "I have cougar tendencies," making me want her chest to bust out of her robes everytime I have her in my party.

My favorite though has to be Shale followed by Oghren. Both are so simple and crass in their character, I cannot help but laugh everytime they open their mouth in game.

As for Zevran, he plays the scandalous foreigner to a fault. Sten is along the lines of Shale with his character and dead pan comedic lines, which are quite hilarious when you put him and Morrigan in your party.

I love them all except for Sten and Zevran because they're murderers.

And Loghain is a punk and a traitor. I didn't even know you could recruit him into your party. Maybe only for a short while (to replace Alistair which I would never do)??



Antabus said:
Jumpin said:

I wouldn't call them "more realistic" so much as "less imaginative". 

The main reason why I don't like "Western RPGs" is because they are really action adventure games with extra story and some RPG elements. Most of them are heavily focussed on strong adventure elements (ie. do this or this in order to unlock this or this). Current WRPGs sacrifice many elements that are really the core of the RPG genre; the key element being a turn-based battle system. With the way that the term "RPG" is used to describe a western RPG, almost any current game could be called an RPG; you could call NBA Jam an RPG.

 

What?

So a jrpg with always exactly the same characters/plot/combat is more imaginative than any given game?

What are jrpg:s if not adventure games, some of them even have action in them. Maybe a bit added rpg elements. How about FF XIII? I think a role playing game is a game where you really play a role, not just follow a preset path with a lot of boring cutscenes.

Key element of rpg games is turn based battle, why is that? Because you were used to it back in the "good old days" when you were playing jrpg:s with your nes or snes?

* I have played dozens of Japanese made RPGs, I haven't come across any that are exactly the same; I would go on to say that the most imaginative games I have ever played are RPGs made in Japan. If you think that Final Fantasy 13 Xenogears, The World Ends With You, Skies of Arcadia, Earthbound, and Chrono Trigger, are exactly the same, then it really just shows how narrow minded of a view you have. 

* Turn-based battles, which are the simulation of actions rather than the direct control over actions, are the major unique point that RPGs have over all other genres. They are a major defining point of the genre.

* Your definition of an RPG  "play a role" is FAR too broad. Most videogames have you taking on the role of a character. RPGs are a very specific type of game that came into existence through a process beginning with proto-RPG/adventure titles like Ultima and Wizardry through to the original Dragon Quest trilogy.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.