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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 18 Month Wait for 'Hardcore' Kinect Games -say's Microsoft EMEA vice prez.

makingmusic476 said:
Darth Tigris said:

So were people really expecting a ton of core gaming experiences at launch?  Really?

This was just revealed about a year ago and introduces very different way of gaming.  It takes TRADITIONAL core games some 2-3 years to conceptualize and release, so why would these be ... easier?

Casual gaming at first, just like it was the Wii, should be expected.  If those don't appeal to you, wait.


Uh, the WIi had Twilight Princess (and Red Steel) at launch, with Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 less than a year later, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl only a few months after that.  Four of the best hardcore games this generation were were released for the system well within its first 18 months.

OT:  A peripheral lives and dies on its initial support.  Unless it has software that'll convince people to buy in early on, it will struggle at first, and Microsoft will have a hard time breathing life back into the device later on in the game.  They're relying on casuals to be the early adopters, and with $299 as the base price for a non-360 owner at that. 

They should've taken Nintendo's strategy.  Get the hardcore to opt in for Twilight Princess, then get the casuals on board when the hardcore start showing off Wii Sports to their friends and family.  Had they released this alongside, say, Gears 3, it would've provided them with a decent sized initial install base from which to attract more casual buyers.

I agree MS should have a good hardcore title to launch with. That said

Red Steel shouldn't even be noted, it scored 63 on meta, obviously not very good. I'd (and I imagine most gamers) would rather no hardcore game at launch rather than a bad/average one.

SSBB and SMG launched roughly year and a year after Wii launched.

What's being said here is 18 months, is that 18 months from now? Because that makes it a little over a year after launch ... like SSBB and SMG ...

So apart from Zelda (which I agree with) MS and Nintendo launch wernt very different ...

Plus, that doesn't mean SOME core titles won't come earlier.



 

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Seece said:
makingmusic476 said:
Darth Tigris said:

So were people really expecting a ton of core gaming experiences at launch?  Really?

This was just revealed about a year ago and introduces very different way of gaming.  It takes TRADITIONAL core games some 2-3 years to conceptualize and release, so why would these be ... easier?

Casual gaming at first, just like it was the Wii, should be expected.  If those don't appeal to you, wait.


Uh, the WIi had Twilight Princess (and Red Steel) at launch, with Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 less than a year later, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl only a few months after that.  Four of the best hardcore games this generation were were released for the system well within its first 18 months.

OT:  A peripheral lives and dies on its initial support.  Unless it has software that'll convince people to buy in early on, it will struggle at first, and Microsoft will have a hard time breathing life back into the device later on in the game.  They're relying on casuals to be the early adopters, and with $299 as the base price for a non-360 owner at that. 

They should've taken Nintendo's strategy.  Get the hardcore to opt in for Twilight Princess, then get the casuals on board when the hardcore start showing off Wii Sports to their friends and family.  Had they released this alongside, say, Gears 3, it would've provided them with a decent sized initial install base from which to attract more casual buyers.

I agree MS should have a good hardcore title to launch with. That said

Red Steel shouldn't even be noted, it scored 63 on meta, obviously not very good. I'd (and I imagine most gamers) would rather no hardcore game at launch rather than a bad/average one.

SSBB and SMG launched roughly year and a year after Wii launched.

What's being said here is 18 months, is that 18 months from now? Because that makes it a little over a year after launch ... like SSBB and SMG ...

So apart from Zelda (which I agree with) MS and Nintendo launch wernt very different ...

Plus, that doesn't mean SOME core titles won't come earlier.

Except you just ignored Metroid as well 4 of the top rated games on the system were launched before 18 months lol 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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Seece said:
makingmusic476 said:
Darth Tigris said:

So were people really expecting a ton of core gaming experiences at launch?  Really?

This was just revealed about a year ago and introduces very different way of gaming.  It takes TRADITIONAL core games some 2-3 years to conceptualize and release, so why would these be ... easier?

Casual gaming at first, just like it was the Wii, should be expected.  If those don't appeal to you, wait.


Uh, the WIi had Twilight Princess (and Red Steel) at launch, with Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 less than a year later, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl only a few months after that.  Four of the best hardcore games this generation were were released for the system well within its first 18 months.

OT:  A peripheral lives and dies on its initial support.  Unless it has software that'll convince people to buy in early on, it will struggle at first, and Microsoft will have a hard time breathing life back into the device later on in the game.  They're relying on casuals to be the early adopters, and with $299 as the base price for a non-360 owner at that. 

They should've taken Nintendo's strategy.  Get the hardcore to opt in for Twilight Princess, then get the casuals on board when the hardcore start showing off Wii Sports to their friends and family.  Had they released this alongside, say, Gears 3, it would've provided them with a decent sized initial install base from which to attract more casual buyers.

I agree MS should have a good hardcore title to launch with. That said

Red Steel shouldn't even be noted, it scored 63 on meta, obviously not very good. I'd (and I imagine most gamers) would rather no hardcore game at launch rather than a bad/average one.

SSBB and SMG launched roughly year and a year after Wii launched.

What's being said here is 18 months, is that 18 months from now? Because that makes it a little over a year after launch ... like SSBB and SMG ...

So apart from Zelda (which I agree with) MS and Nintendo launch wernt very different ...

Plus, that doesn't mean SOME core titles won't come earlier.

Super Mario Galaxy came out in November 2007 in all three territories, one year after the Wii's November 2006 launch for NA/JP, and less than a year after Europe's December 2006 launch.

And you completely ignored Metroid Prime, which came out in August 2007 in NA and October in Europe.  Even if you disclude Smash Bros., that's still three games.  Three of Nintendo's best games this generation.

Unless Microsoft suddenly comes up with multiple Kinect-exclusive system selling hardcore titles, the two scenarios are quite different.



I wonder if one of those games in Black and White 3? It'd be an obvious choice for a pure Kinect game.

Anyway in terms of market conditions it makes sense to hold off the major core releases for about a year as the market support just wouldn't be there.



WilliamWatts said:

I wonder if one of those games in Black and White 3? It'd be an obvious choice for a pure Kinect game.

Anyway in terms of market conditions it makes sense to hold off the major core releases for about a year as the market support just wouldn't be there.

But you are never going to get core players to create that market if there aren't games for them in the first place.

I agree no big budget games are needed, but any core content should be present.

I thought MS said Sony was the one that just threw their product out of the cupboard?



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Well at least all save some money this holiday for badass games with controllers



yet more reasons to hold off On Kinect. i will wait for a price cut and some games im interested in.



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Game - Metro Last Light

TV - Deadwood

Music - Forest Swords 

dtewi said:

So 1.5 years until the interesting games out that actually appeal to the core userbase and it costs $150 if you already have an Xbox. That's in 2012.

What.

The.

Hell.

Kinect is shooting itself in the foot now.


so they won't after all, cuz by that time next gen starting



makingmusic476 said:
Darth Tigris said:

So were people really expecting a ton of core gaming experiences at launch?  Really?

This was just revealed about a year ago and introduces very different way of gaming.  It takes TRADITIONAL core games some 2-3 years to conceptualize and release, so why would these be ... easier?

Casual gaming at first, just like it was the Wii, should be expected.  If those don't appeal to you, wait.


Uh, the WIi had Twilight Princess (and Red Steel) at launch, with Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 less than a year later, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl only a few months after that.  Four of the best hardcore games this generation were were released for the system well within its first 18 months.

OT:  A peripheral lives and dies on its initial support.  Unless it has software that'll convince people to buy in early on, it will struggle at first, and Microsoft will have a hard time breathing life back into the device later on in the game.  They're relying on casuals to be the early adopters, and with $299 as the base price for a non-360 owner at that. 

They should've taken Nintendo's strategy.  Get the hardcore to opt in for Twilight Princess, then get the casuals on board when the hardcore start showing off Wii Sports to their friends and family.  Had they released this alongside, say, Gears 3, it would've provided them with a decent sized initial install base from which to attract more casual buyers.

But, to be honest, those were controller games that had motion control forced on them.  In fact, I played TTP on the GC just fine.  And Mario Galaxy could've easily worked just fine on a regular controller.  I have yet to play MP3, but I've read similar things about that.

From my understanding, that's exactly what MS DIDN'T want with Kinect.  They really want unique experiences, not ones that will have the core continually saying "this would've been better with a regular controller".  And those types of experiences are just going to take time to be done right.



Darth Tigris said:
makingmusic476 said:
Darth Tigris said:

So were people really expecting a ton of core gaming experiences at launch?  Really?

This was just revealed about a year ago and introduces very different way of gaming.  It takes TRADITIONAL core games some 2-3 years to conceptualize and release, so why would these be ... easier?

Casual gaming at first, just like it was the Wii, should be expected.  If those don't appeal to you, wait.


Uh, the WIi had Twilight Princess (and Red Steel) at launch, with Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 less than a year later, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl only a few months after that.  Four of the best hardcore games this generation were were released for the system well within its first 18 months.

OT:  A peripheral lives and dies on its initial support.  Unless it has software that'll convince people to buy in early on, it will struggle at first, and Microsoft will have a hard time breathing life back into the device later on in the game.  They're relying on casuals to be the early adopters, and with $299 as the base price for a non-360 owner at that. 

They should've taken Nintendo's strategy.  Get the hardcore to opt in for Twilight Princess, then get the casuals on board when the hardcore start showing off Wii Sports to their friends and family.  Had they released this alongside, say, Gears 3, it would've provided them with a decent sized initial install base from which to attract more casual buyers.

But, to be honest, those were controller games that had motion control forced on them.  In fact, I played TTP on the GC just fine.  And Mario Galaxy could've easily worked just fine on a regular controller.  I have yet to play MP3, but I've read similar things about that.

From my understanding, that's exactly what MS DIDN'T want with Kinect.  They really want unique experiences, not ones that will have the core continually saying "this would've been better with a regular controller".  And those types of experiences are just going to take time to be done right.


Metroid Prime 3 is playable with a regular controller but the set up is annoying as hell, Wii controls improved the game in every way.  TP I felt more immersed with Wii controls and liked the aiming much more than with a traditional controller, SMG I agree with though it was obvious the origins of that game was on the Gamecube, but they are using the controls in great fun ways but it is in sections of the game rather than the entire game.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000