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Forums - Microsoft - Kinect pricing looks better with Game bundled.

greenmedic88 on 22 July 2010
Reasonable said:

Wow, the thread of page long responses.

TBH looking at all the pricing and functions I'd say the Wii remains the most cost effective if you want motion control gaming and it has the largest library (of course) at this point plus the most rounded features if you rope in the Wii Fit.

Kinect on its own is way to high - but the bundle seems okay.  Looks to me like MS are banking on existing owners being loyal and snapping it up for a premium to help cover a lower cost bundle for new consumers.

Move pricing and hype right now is just blank IMHO.  I think that, technically, for games Move is actually the best tech out of all three (i.e. including Wii) but right now it's releasing just like another peripheral and it's just not generating the attention needed to do better.  Particularly in the US and the UK Sony need to spend more on marketing and hype building or they're going to see Kinect do better on sheer hype alone.

I think Kinect will sell well, at least initially, but depending upon how they fill out the library I think it may then drop off a bit vs the hype growth the Wii saw initially unless something from the initial launch turns out to be Kinect's Wii Sports.

This has pretty much been my impression as well based upon the live demonstrations of tech demos in progress.

Of the three, Move just seems to work closest to "as advertised."

But it's also the least original of the three which will cause many to ignore the fact that it really does seem to work the best in practice. Won't have a valid final opinion until I actually play with and break down both Kinect and Move.

From a library standpoint, I'm kind of having a hard time seeing what any core gamers are getting excited about in regards to the initial Kinect catalog of games. It seems as though the point of Kinect is to focus on family and casual gaming experiences, which is fine, but if so, why the excitement from core Xbox owners? Fable III seems to be the one solid, core title that could have really great Kinect based play enhancement, but without any official word, it's really just wishful thinking at this point.

At minimum, Move will have backwards compatibility with games like RE5 and Heavy Rain, even if the initial Move games don't fully deliver (The Fight and Sorcery have potential, but may only be mediocre). But SOCOM 4, Time Crisis and LBP2 make a pretty obvious statement about how Move will be used in the future. Shooters alone should make it a hit among the core demographic.

If Kinect does end up selling more consoles or generating more revenue, it definitely won't be because it provided the best gaming experience to anyone outside the casual market, which really just brings up the question of whether better game support or better sales matter most when it comes to this whole Move and Kinect choice.



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selnor on 22 July 2010
greenmedic88 said:

This is the same kind of logic that actually attempts to "applaud" the $150 MSRP of Kinect.

While it would be a bit pointless to ship the camera without any sort of software to showcase how it works, if you asked 100 potential buyers if they'd rather just buy the camera for $99 and spend the $50 difference on ANY Kinect game of their choosing... It doesn't take a market analyst to guess what the majority answer would be.

Kinect Adventures is essentially the equivalent of Wii Play, which amounted to a $10 game with the included controller.

As for the whole issue of ignoring the two active player limitation (believable considering each player can only have up to 20 joints being tracked according to the MS data sheet); don't. It's definitely an issue if Kinect is supposed to be the ultimate family/party game peripheral.

BTW, 20 joints per player isn't much (any character rig created in Maya with only 20 joints for example, would be a very basic model with limited animation), not that this limitation should prevent developers from producing acceptable results, but for those who were under the impression that Kinect would be able to detect intricate finger gestures in games; looks like you're out of luck unless fingers are the only thing a particular game engine is designed to track (at two joints per finger).

It just seems to me that the more formal information MS releases (clothing limitations, number of active players, amount of space required, etc), the further away Kinect seems be from the Project Natal concept reels from E3 2009. It's really going to be up to the games once you get past the smoke and mirrors of how Kinect works in reality.

M$ official data sheet is 48 trackable points. Please can you post your data sheet where you got this 20 point tracking info from???



greenmedic88 on 22 July 2010
selnor said:
greenmedic88 said:

This is the same kind of logic that actually attempts to "applaud" the $150 MSRP of Kinect.

While it would be a bit pointless to ship the camera without any sort of software to showcase how it works, if you asked 100 potential buyers if they'd rather just buy the camera for $99 and spend the $50 difference on ANY Kinect game of their choosing... It doesn't take a market analyst to guess what the majority answer would be.

Kinect Adventures is essentially the equivalent of Wii Play, which amounted to a $10 game with the included controller.

As for the whole issue of ignoring the two active player limitation (believable considering each player can only have up to 20 joints being tracked according to the MS data sheet); don't. It's definitely an issue if Kinect is supposed to be the ultimate family/party game peripheral.

BTW, 20 joints per player isn't much (any character rig created in Maya with only 20 joints for example, would be a very basic model with limited animation), not that this limitation should prevent developers from producing acceptable results, but for those who were under the impression that Kinect would be able to detect intricate finger gestures in games; looks like you're out of luck unless fingers are the only thing a particular game engine is designed to track (at two joints per finger).

It just seems to me that the more formal information MS releases (clothing limitations, number of active players, amount of space required, etc), the further away Kinect seems be from the Project Natal concept reels from E3 2009. It's really going to be up to the games once you get past the smoke and mirrors of how Kinect works in reality.

M$ official data sheet is 48 trackable points. Please can you post your data sheet where you got this 20 point tracking info from???

Sensor
Colour and depth-sensing lenses
Voice microphone array
Tilt motor for sensor adjustment
Fully compatible with existing Xbox 360 consoles

Field of View
Horizontal field of view: 57 degrees
Vertical field of view: 43 degrees
Physical tilt range: ± 27 degrees
Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m

Data Streams
320x240 16-bit depth @ 30 frames/sec
640x480 32-bit colour@ 30 frames/sec
16-bit audio @ 16 kHz

Skeletal Tracking System
Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players
Tracks 20 joints per active player
Ability to map active players to LIVE Avatars

Audio System
LIVE party chat and in-game voice chat (requires Xbox LIVE Gold Membership)
Echo cancellation system enhances voice input
Speech recognition in multiple
This information is based on specifications supplied by manufacturers and should be used for guidance only.





dahuman on 22 July 2010
M.U.G.E.N said:
selnor said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
kitler53 said:
selnor said:
.....

Noone has said that Kinect is only 2 players. 

We havent had confirmation from M$ on this at all. All we know is the games at E3 were 2 players, and Dance Central was upto 3 players ( and the adverts for DC confirm 3 players ).

And yes Hardcore motion controller gamers are in the minority. Look at the sales of Conduit, or Red Steel, or any mature/hard to grasp game on Wii. The sales are dismal in comparison to core games on PS3 let alone 360. 

Even the Mario/Mario Kart franchise has been streamlined and dumbed down compared to the challenge you used to get in my good old Ninty days. 

If it was the hardcore market really buying the wii, they would have been buying the Gamecube last gen. As for hardcore games the Gamecube was both more challenging and better for the core gamer.  

 

Technical Details  
Rating

3 (PEGI)
Minimum Requirements

Sensor
Colour and depth-sensing lenses
Voice microphone array
Tilt motor for sensor adjustment
Fully compatible with existing Xbox 360 consoles

Field of View
Horizontal field of view: 57 degrees
Vertical field of view: 43 degrees
Physical tilt range: ± 27 degrees
Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m

Data Streams
320x240 16-bit depth @ 30 frames/sec
640x480 32-bit colour@ 30 frames/sec
16-bit audio @ 16 kHz

Skeletal Tracking System
Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players
Tracks 20 joints per active player
Ability to map active players to LIVE Avatars

Audio System
LIVE party chat and in-game voice chat (requires Xbox LIVE Gold Membership)
Echo cancellation system enhances voice input
Speech recognition in multiple
This information is based on specifications supplied by manufacturers and should be used for guidance only.

http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/10296372/Project-Natal/Product.html

you beat me to it..it only 'tracks' two active players...

anywho nice Spin selnor ;)

and btw isn't Kinect games more expensive than those of move as well?

Not in the UK. Move titles are £39.99. So are all M$ 360 games. Except the odd £44.99.

And thanks for the info. Maybe Dance Central uses a less active pick up for background dancers or something.

The video below shows 2 players for all games except Dance Central.


you can't be serious in using those vids as proof now are you?

and in the case of prices then US is getting screwed then lol we are even

I've already read up and had listened to a lot of podcasts on dancen central, 2 active players, tracks people in background, maybe the device can do more, but the problem is who the hell has the space in the common wealth? Kintect is a good idea, built on limitations.

 

ps: regardeless, dance central looks like a cool ass game.



dahuman on 22 July 2010

btw Selnor, if you don't own a Wii and don't know much about the games, I'd suggest not BS about them, Nintendo has made the hardest games this gen on consoles so far, and they are mostly brutally good while being harder than what the HD consoles have to offer.



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BHR-3 on 22 July 2010

same could be said about the others even more so

Wii console 199 includes two games that could retail for about 40$ each

PS3 move pack $99 with 1-2 game that could retail for $40-50

also in JP and Eu move is priced alot cheaper than NA

EU prices 50 pound for ps3 move, camara, 2 games then the sub controller and camara are 25 pound each

compared to a DS3 which in NA is 55$ and in Uk its 35 pound now if in NA the move bundle is $100 why isnt the move bundle in UK around 65 pound? 

in JP

move bundle 1 game camara and move is under 6000 yen thats cheaper then most retail PS3 games in JP and translates to about 65$ 

btw whats the price of kinect in japan as anything been annouced?



                                                             

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ArnoldRimmer on 22 July 2010
selnor said:

LOL. You can buy Wii Sports for £39.99?????

Last I checked preowned it was £1.25 in CEX.

And now guess at what price you will be able to buy a preowned copy of a game that comes bundled with each and every Kinect sensor by the end of November.

Well, there's a difference between the two games of course. Wii Sports is still considered one of the best Wii games, while hardly anyone even cares about Kinect Adventures (currently place 143 of the vgchartz Buzz Index).



BMaker11 on 22 July 2010
kitler53 said:
selnor said:
kitler53 said:

i love the logic!  the wii comes bundled with wii sports and wii sports resort so really the wii only costs $100  and that makes kinect at $89 is still almost as expensive as a $100 wii console.

edit: zen is right, kinect games are priced at $50 so kinect is actually $99.


LOL. You can buy Wii Sports for £39.99?????

Last I checked preowned it was £1.25 in CEX. And could no be found brand new unless with the console. Hence it's depreciative value.

Either way $99 is a great price. 

US guys are getting some demo stuff with Move. But here in EU we are getting no PS3 Move bundle as of yet, and no game with Move starter pack.

Essentially, Move is costing £189 for 2 players with 1 game in UK. 2 player Kinect with 1 game is £129.99.

So M$ are priced amazingly well even if they are taking UK for an extra ride.

It's poor though that in UK if you dont own a PS3, to get Move and PS3 over 360 Kinect this is how they tally.

PS3 Slim ( cheapest model ) Move Starter pack extra accessories for 2 players for the family your first game = £424.94.

360 Kinect bundle ( which includes full retail Kinect Adventures ) = £249.99

Even buying a 250gbhdd 360s buying Kinect seperate ( which includes a free Kinect Adventures and is fully ready for multiple players ) is £329.98.

M$ are in a great pricing position.

so wii sport's value is depreciated due to being bundled with every wii but kinect adventures still retains all value despite being bundled with every kinect?  double standard much? 

either way kinect costs $150 not $99. 

..and when you quote the price of move and always add in a second controller and two navs you are using the same logic sony fanboys used when they tried to argue that the 360 arcade was more expensive than the ps3 because you had  to buy all sorts of extra things.  the logic is simply flawed because you don't have to. 

but by all means, spin away on how kinects expensive price isn't actually expensive.

LOL. I've been saying this for a while now. Just check the recent thread where Microsoft says Kinect is cheaper than Move and Wii



BMaker11 on 22 July 2010

And lol @ the combating logic to "well, with Move you gotta buy 4 controllers and navigation controllers to enjoy it" <---even though you don't, with:

Well, since Kinect on tracks 2 people, and at least 4 people HAVE to play in order to enjoys these peripherals, you need 2 360/Kinect bundles so that's $600"

I don't think anyone can tear down that logic because 4 people HAVE to play, right? That seems to be the case when comparing Move to Kinect

And bundled in games have like...no value afterwards, so trying to say Kinect is cheaper because of Kinect Adventures is moot. You want to see how much you REALLY paid? Take that Kinect Adventures and place it on eBay once you buy Kinect. Once you get a whopping $2 for the game....Kinect still costs $148



selnor on 22 July 2010
dahuman said:

btw Selnor, if you don't own a Wii and don't know much about the games, I'd suggest not BS about them, Nintendo has made the hardest games this gen on consoles so far, and they are mostly brutally good while being harder than what the HD consoles have to offer.


The ones Ive played, Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, NSMBWii are all very easy in comparison to previous games. Fun, but easy. Mario Bros. 3 or Mario World were harder games. As was Mario Kart 64. It's just lost it's jazz. I used to be a huge Nintendo fanboy. I still have 92 copies of Nintendo Official Magazine. LOL.