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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Female protagonist? What do you think?

Weegee said:
pearljammer said:
 

I admit, I haven't read most of it. Just enough to noticed that it had become page after page of discussion on Fire Emblem.

How are gender differences sexist? That's absurd. There are plenty of differences between genders; acknowledging them is far from sexist.

Perhaps you mean their capabilities? Hell, in all of the FE games that I've played there have been plenty of useful, empowered, strong female characters; and there has been plenty of male characters who fit that description. Are there just as many powerful females are there are males and do their collective importance equal that of the males... I have no damn idea. It really doesn't matter. Going by that standard, every piece of media ever created is likely sexist.

I really, really don't understand. Females in FE are not typified as helpless, weak, dependent, useless or anything of the sort. They have plenty of strengths, albeit sometimes different, but no less important (or useful), like the males. I think you're misusing the word 'sexism.'

As I said, I haven't read everything, so I may be misjudging what you're saying. Let me know if I am.


No gender diference is not sexist I know but fire emblem the ratio of strong male is not equal (they are more guy than girl so more strong guy than girl). The programmer could avoid this by making simply more girl in the game but they did not do it and they put diference gender in a world where magic broke all we know (If the developper always make girl with less str , hp and def that become a stereotype and not a good one).  When a stereotype in negative it became sexism if it aplies to all guy or girl (in fire emblem it aplie to girl) Also another stereotype from Fire emblem is girl have always need protection , often lost hope (and need suport) and have rarely leadership. This is again again a bad stereotype and again it's almost always apply to girl and don't forget that if you make a bad streotype toward a group , it's become discrimination and if it's toward the guy or girl , it's become sexism.

So your complaint is that they are not all statistically the same? I'd say you'd have a point if most/all the females were less useful than their male counterparts, but they're not. Why would you want it tailored to a point where the creators are practically making androgynous characters? This also goes back to what I was saying earlier: If you were to hold this standard to every piece of media, you'd likely find that just about everything is sexist (to you) one way or another.

"Also another stereotype from Fire emblem is girl have always need protection , often lost hope (and need suport) and have rarely leadership."

In FE 9 and 10:

  • Elincia and Sanaki both were protected (one almost exclusively by females!) but both were royalty. It's hardly unexpected nor is it sexist to have them being protected (honestly, I feel sill even explaining this).
  • Mist. Ike had protected her, however it is normal for him to be protective just as it was for Boyd and Oscar to be protective over Rolf. Same thing.
  • Miciah. She was both like a brother to Sothe and an inspiriation to her people; being a target, of course he had felt compelled to protect her. She didn't need protection from Sothe though... he did so as a brother. Would I be sexist if I had protected my sister from whatever? This is absurd.
  • All three of these females were strong (or had become) strong leaders. They had to lean on others at times in order to achieve their goals... But what leader wouldn't? Both Ashnard and Ike had leaned on others. That doesn't make them dependants.

Anyhow, you can have the last word here. I can't see this going far when you're essentially saying that practically every movie, game, comic, anime, show, by this standard, is sexist.



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Weegee said:

I never said lyndis was weak or need protection , I just said that she is bumped from her position of leader and it's sad that there just one fire emblem with a main character girl from the begining to the end (fire emblem 4 i think).

When I was compared Eirika and Ephraim look the situation. In stat , Epraim is just better than Eirika. Look at their peronality , Eirika need protection and advice and she got less leadership than is brother , she has less self confidence she need the more advice posible to make a move. But Epraim ,he take a bunch of knight , charge the enemy and win. Foolishness ? Don't forget that he never pick up a fight that he can't win, he has too much leadership for that. Guess what ? He does not make one error and came back alive without a little wound.And it's always like this.

Lilina is a little girl , so she need protection from a little boy who is the commander of the entire lycia army. Yeah...

And your say that it's not stereotype ? Are you saying that it's a hazard that the girl have almost always less leadership, less confidence and less important position ?

Anyway you say that you never saw this in fire emblem. You refuse to see this because you like the game. Am not alone in the world to think like this. I just want 50/50 with the character but you assume that I want  the character to be identical. Maybe it would be the first step to have more main character girl like lyndis.

Also you saying thing like 'the majority of player play with iron weapon' to convince me for X point.

But when i'm saying that the majority of player have more guy than girl in their final party. You saying that you don't care about the majority of player in forum.

Maybe I was wrong about Elincia but for me , when I saw someone totally dominated by his people and the knight in shinny armor come and save the day, I don't think it's a good exemple.

Anyway , we lost our time here, nobody want to change is mind. Look , I don't say that Fire Emblem is a bad game. I'm just angry because I want more girl like lyndis or imagine a Hector personality put in a girl, that would be cool. I want also a identical number of guy and girl in the group of hero. They are always more guy ruler , important general and I want the developper to put 50/50 but they don't.

On some level I think there may be a language barrier here: I get the impression that I must be misunderstanding some of your points, because some of this doesn't make sense to me.

There is no central leader in FE7, inn spite of Eliwood becoming the narrative focus after the first ten chapters. She only "lost leadership" in the sense that she was among equals and they all agreed on what needed to be done.

And no, Ephraim is not better than Eirika, that's also verifiably false: he has more strength, but she has better speed, skill, luck, and resistance - she's eminently more survivable than he is if only because she's so much freaking harder to hit. I use Eirika over Ephraim every time. Her average speed is over six points higher than his, and she will double-hit ridiculously more often than he does, while getting hit much less often in turn. Trying to spin her stats as being worse than his is just dishonest.

Lilina's growth is important too; Roy got there before she did, is all. They're both heirs to the most importantl ords in the land. Characters can grow. Their characters are not summarized in the first ten minutes you see them.

Girls do not "always have leadership, less confidence and less important position." That's a falsehood. It's verifiable falsehood, and all it takes is one instance to prove it. I've given you several. Drop te point, you are wrong.

I never said that i've never seen it, I said that it's not the rule. Because it isn't. I don't care if you'e not alone, you're wrong.

I bring up the point that lower constitution on female classes is not a matter of importance when the lightest weapons you can get are also typically the best bang for your buck in terms of damage dealt. Female characters are not weaker.

Elincia was not "dominated by [her] people". She had to make hard choices as a queen. She was an incredibly strong character, particularly in that scene, and trying to spin that scene as sexist against women is a misappropriation of the word "sexist".

Hector's personality is intensely masculine and brash,transplanting his personality into a girl would basically be making Hector with boobs. That's what I mean by makign characters identical - you're not acknowledging that there is a diffeence in the feminine and masculine mindset and perspective, and when you fail to acknowledge that point you are not a good feminist.

This is not a case where I'm going to stop just because you want to end the conversation. I'll give a lot of people the las word, but not this time. Your definition of "feminism" and your definition of "sexism" are both off-base.



Better stop Weegee or he'll have you banned! I'm still here tought!



I just got an advertisement for being rude. So I will stop here. Anyways , that was fun lol. And I know what is feministe , maybe i'm extremiste also but that the life. I will not change my mind , the day Inteligent systeme will put more girl (And more strong one) I will shut my mouth. Don't forget that feministe mean that someone want the woman to be equal in all way to the man (number , importance, power etc). The day I will see more guy who need protection (not nesserely from girl) , same number of guy/girl in the group of hero, more female ruler and more final boss and main character girl (Like lyndis). Then I will be happy and it's will be 50/50 in my eyes. Sorry if someone got hurt by my message, that was not my intention. We will see each other in another topic. Have a good day everyone. :)



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Weegee said:

I just got an advertisement for being rude. So I will stop here. Anyways , that was fun lol. And I know what is feministe , maybe i'm extremiste also but that the life. I will not change my mind , the day Inteligent systeme will put more girl (And more strong one) I will shut my mouth. Don't forget that feministe mean that someone want the woman to be equal in all way to the man (number , importance, power etc). The day I will see more guy who need protection (not nesserely from girl) , same number of guy/girl in the group of hero, more female ruler and more final boss and main character girl (Like lyndis). Then I will be happy and it's will be 50/50 in my eyes. Sorry if someone got hurt by my message, that was not my intention. We will see each other in another topic. Have a good day everyone. :)

Wut? really?! Who reported you? Mmm, I think I know who did :D He strikes again! The best way to ''win'' easily!



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Weegee said:

I just got an advertisement for being rude. So I will stop here. Anyways , that was fun lol. And I know what is feministe , maybe i'm extremiste also but that the life. I will not change my mind , the day Inteligent systeme will put more girl (And more strong one) I will shut my mouth. Don't forget that feministe mean that someone want the woman to be equal in all way to the man (number , importance, power etc). The day I will see more guy who need protection (not nesserely from girl) , same number of guy/girl in the group of hero, more female ruler and more final boss and main character girl (Like lyndis). Then I will be happy and it's will be 50/50 in my eyes. Sorry if someone got hurt by my message, that was not my intention. We will see each other in another topic. Have a good day everyone. :)

Most of the rulers in Radiant Dawn were female, especially at the end - Crimea, Daein, and Begnion (the three major beorc regions) were all ruled by women. The final boss was female. Many of the most powerful characters were female. Half the game's usable leaders were female. Every Lord, ever, has had protection from their army. I don't think they can reasonably hit a point where you'll be satisfied if you weren't satisfied by Radiant Dawn.

Thank you for a nice end to the conversation.



KylieDog said:
d21lewis said:

Gears of War 3 features a good game AND hot women.  My head will explode!


Hunchbacks you mean.

She's in a crouching position in that pose.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

KylieDog said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
KylieDog said:
d21lewis said:

Gears of War 3 features a good game AND hot women.  My head will explode!


Hunchbacks you mean.

She's in a crouching position in that pose.


Her neck starts halfway down her chest, that ain't no crouch.

I've seen video and pics from other angles.  She's hot.  So's the brunette.  She doesn't have a hump (maybe she gets "humped" later).  Besides, put on a bullet proof vest and try crouching (I do it everytime I go to work).  The thing rides up like you wouldn't believe.



guys who don't like playing as girls in videogames are gay. there i said it.



As a guy, I would rather spend hundreds of hours watching a girl running, slashing, jumping, ect... than a guy doing the same thing.  My friends never understood why I always made female characters till I explained this logic.

... On the other hand,  this post reminded me of my hot Demon's Souls character that was deleted when my PS3 died :(