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Forums - Sales Discussion - Its time to admit it. PS3 will NEVER overtake 360.

Seece on 04 July 2010
Jo21 said:
Seece said:
Jo21 said:


original xbox lost even more money. :p

we are in economy crisis, sony didn't have alost in 14 years and when they did was because they bought columbia

Actually you're wrong, original xbox lost $4.2 billion using these figures. PS3 has lost Sony $5 billion, and thats with the PS2 and PSP profiting, it's more than likely PS3 has lost around 6/7 $billion.


i read xbox total looses are up to total  7bm considering extended warranty was 1.2b with the 360

@squilliam because the original ps3 already had all those features. it simply more bang for the money.

add blu ray player, and ability to use any 2.5HDD, sony recently added a a way tranfer files without having to buy or get a tranfer cable. :D

Total losses on the first Xbox were - $4 billion, the had one profitable Q to my knowlegde, but no profitable fiscal years.

Total losses for the 360 reached $3 billion, this includes the $1 billion RROD payout as can be seen in fiscal year 07/08.

Total Profit for the 360 now stands at $1.4 billion, that leaves $1.6 billion left for Microsoft to make a profit on the Xbox 360.

IF Microsoft continue actively trying to profit as they have been doing over the last 3 years, the 360 will be a profitable venture for Microsoft by the end of Fiscal year 2011, then they'll start eating into the losses from the original Xbox.





 

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Jo21 on 04 July 2010
Seece said:
Squilliam said:
BHR-3 said:

unfortunately for you squilliuam thats not the only thing changing wireless N and additional usb ports will be added now you right it wont have a huge effect like the 360S but its essensially a price drop 250gb are 349 now they will be 299 in the fall and stock of 120gb will drop to 249 to clear out the combo will be enough to outsell 360WW for the rest of the holidays this is all BHR-3 theory but lets not forget this stat gt5 every time a gt game has released past gens PS HW was higher than the previous year now ps3 sold close to13m all of last year what does that mean for this year

doesnt matter 360 has never sold more than 11m in a year and its been at $199 and was even cheaper in EU in 08 PS3 has already shown us close to 13m in year sold with a freaking 299 price tag  whats going to happen at 199$? it only a matter of time b4 ps3>360 WW and the data shows it and everyone will look back at this thread and have a big laugh at loud theres no reason for never to be capitalized in the title unless data shows that its 100% impossible that ps3 will pass 360 and if the thread creator did it for the posts guess what you dont get points for big threads anymore


Look at the differences in an objective manner:

Xbox 360 S:

  • No wireless vs wireless -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 25-50% percieved reduction in noise -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 0/20/60GB HDD vs 250GB -> Noticeable improvement for upgraders.
  • HDD transfer cable included -> Makes upgrading to new console EASY.
  • Losing much of the reliability stigma -> Noticeable improvement.
  • More USB ports -> Marginal

PS3 250GB revision @ $299

  • Wireless G -> N -> Marginal
  • More USB ports -> Marginal
  • Upgraded HDD side -> Marginal.

A temporary 17% reduction in price isn't a significant change. Its not going to make many people jump, especially given the fact that the console is already affordable.

One thing you're missing completely is the fact that the Xbox 360 sales have been consistant inspite a reduction in cost of only 33% for the Xbox 360 Arcade and only 25% for the top tier console. Sales have remained consistant throughout the years because Microsoft has been successful in increasing the value of the console to keep sales steady without relying on price cuts. Sales now are relatively the same compared to last year and yet the console hasn't had a price cut since late 2008.

Don't rely on past precedent, it'll only lead you astray. Chances are this year could be the peak year for the Xbox 360 considering its already pushing ahead of last years sales and setting itself up for a very strong Christmas. Yet past precedent says that a 2nd place console should NOT have its peak year in year 5.

 

I still find it most amusing BHR thinks PS3 and Sony can get away with dropping the price $200 in the space of 2 years, but Microsoft can't do $50 in the same time? Even though, the PS3 is only JUST now profitable, and the 360's been profitable for years.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC SQUILL, TELL ME WHERE YOU'VE HIDDEN THE LOGIC!

because not all 360 have Hdd, they aren't build of the most expensive parts (read cheap), and it doesnt have bluray?

also microsoft gets alot of money from xbox live subcriptions.

u know sony have a optional paid subcription if it picks up sony may do a price cut like they did last september?.

about profits, the thing is probably this gen is over before they actually make any profits and that includes windows mobile licensig R&D, Zune sales so u can say they profit because 360 only.



ph4nt on 04 July 2010

I keep seeing people comment about how PS3 wiped out all of the Ps1/PS2 profits. While they have wiped out a significant portion, tallying up the profits and losses over the years is miselading because it doesnt consider one very important aspect, the time value of money.(which is NOT inflation).



Jo21 on 04 July 2010
ph4nt said:

I keep seeing people comment about how PS3 wiped out all of the Ps1/PS2 profits. While they have wiped out a significant portion, tallying up the profits and losses over the years is miselading because it doesnt consider one very important aspect, the time value of money.(which is NOT inflation).


indeed its almost the other way around



BHR-3 on 04 July 2010
Seece said:
Squilliam said:
BHR-3 said:

unfortunately for you squilliuam thats not the only thing changing wireless N and additional usb ports will be added now you right it wont have a huge effect like the 360S but its essensially a price drop 250gb are 349 now they will be 299 in the fall and stock of 120gb will drop to 249 to clear out the combo will be enough to outsell 360WW for the rest of the holidays this is all BHR-3 theory but lets not forget this stat gt5 every time a gt game has released past gens PS HW was higher than the previous year now ps3 sold close to13m all of last year what does that mean for this year

doesnt matter 360 has never sold more than 11m in a year and its been at $199 and was even cheaper in EU in 08 PS3 has already shown us close to 13m in year sold with a freaking 299 price tag  whats going to happen at 199$? it only a matter of time b4 ps3>360 WW and the data shows it and everyone will look back at this thread and have a big laugh at loud theres no reason for never to be capitalized in the title unless data shows that its 100% impossible that ps3 will pass 360 and if the thread creator did it for the posts guess what you dont get points for big threads anymore


Look at the differences in an objective manner:

Xbox 360 S:

  • No wireless vs wireless -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 25-50% percieved reduction in noise -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 0/20/60GB HDD vs 250GB -> Noticeable improvement for upgraders.
  • HDD transfer cable included -> Makes upgrading to new console EASY.
  • Losing much of the reliability stigma -> Noticeable improvement.
  • More USB ports -> Marginal

PS3 250GB revision @ $299

  • Wireless G -> N -> Marginal
  • More USB ports -> Marginal
  • Upgraded HDD side -> Marginal.

A temporary 17% reduction in price isn't a significant change. Its not going to make many people jump, especially given the fact that the console is already affordable.

One thing you're missing completely is the fact that the Xbox 360 sales have been consistant inspite a reduction in cost of only 33% for the Xbox 360 Arcade and only 25% for the top tier console. Sales have remained consistant throughout the years because Microsoft has been successful in increasing the value of the console to keep sales steady without relying on price cuts. Sales now are relatively the same compared to last year and yet the console hasn't had a price cut since late 2008.

Don't rely on past precedent, it'll only lead you astray. Chances are this year could be the peak year for the Xbox 360 considering its already pushing ahead of last years sales and setting itself up for a very strong Christmas. Yet past precedent says that a 2nd place console should NOT have its peak year in year 5.

 

I still find it most amusing BHR thinks PS3 and Sony can get away with dropping the price $200 in the space of 2 years, but Microsoft can't do $50 in the same time? Even though, the PS3 is only JUST now profitable, and the 360's been profitable for years.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC SQUILL, TELL ME WHERE YOU'VE HIDDEN THE LOGIC!

again your pulling stuff from nowhere i never said 360 wont go to 149 249 this year i think it might not but its possible i simply said that this holiday wont be 360 dominate as most think b/c of recent 360 sales and gave my reasoning and that ps3 will pass 360 in 2011 worse case 2012

i also said that a 360s with kenict bundle wont be no where near 149 or 199 as you said seece

if the 250gb 360 goes to 249 and the new 250gb ps3 goes to 299 which i foresee happening with the ps3 then the prcie difference is only 50 factor in free blu ray and onlinei dont thin 50$ will sway many to buy a 360 over a ps3

then you got 360s arcade if that goes to 149 it will hurt sony but i think that when ms brings this console to this price this year sony will discontinue the 120gb to 249 to counter act things but the price difference will be 150 between 360s arcade and 250gb ps3 after 120gb stock run out but in 07 ps3 was able to outsell the 360 with a price difference of 130 so i dont think 360 will dominate this holiday as much as most are thinking in here



                                                             

                                                                      Play Me

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Seece on 04 July 2010
BHR-3 said:
Seece said:
Squilliam said:
BHR-3 said:

unfortunately for you squilliuam thats not the only thing changing wireless N and additional usb ports will be added now you right it wont have a huge effect like the 360S but its essensially a price drop 250gb are 349 now they will be 299 in the fall and stock of 120gb will drop to 249 to clear out the combo will be enough to outsell 360WW for the rest of the holidays this is all BHR-3 theory but lets not forget this stat gt5 every time a gt game has released past gens PS HW was higher than the previous year now ps3 sold close to13m all of last year what does that mean for this year

doesnt matter 360 has never sold more than 11m in a year and its been at $199 and was even cheaper in EU in 08 PS3 has already shown us close to 13m in year sold with a freaking 299 price tag  whats going to happen at 199$? it only a matter of time b4 ps3>360 WW and the data shows it and everyone will look back at this thread and have a big laugh at loud theres no reason for never to be capitalized in the title unless data shows that its 100% impossible that ps3 will pass 360 and if the thread creator did it for the posts guess what you dont get points for big threads anymore


Look at the differences in an objective manner:

Xbox 360 S:

  • No wireless vs wireless -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 25-50% percieved reduction in noise -> Noticeable improvement.
  • 0/20/60GB HDD vs 250GB -> Noticeable improvement for upgraders.
  • HDD transfer cable included -> Makes upgrading to new console EASY.
  • Losing much of the reliability stigma -> Noticeable improvement.
  • More USB ports -> Marginal

PS3 250GB revision @ $299

  • Wireless G -> N -> Marginal
  • More USB ports -> Marginal
  • Upgraded HDD side -> Marginal.

A temporary 17% reduction in price isn't a significant change. Its not going to make many people jump, especially given the fact that the console is already affordable.

One thing you're missing completely is the fact that the Xbox 360 sales have been consistant inspite a reduction in cost of only 33% for the Xbox 360 Arcade and only 25% for the top tier console. Sales have remained consistant throughout the years because Microsoft has been successful in increasing the value of the console to keep sales steady without relying on price cuts. Sales now are relatively the same compared to last year and yet the console hasn't had a price cut since late 2008.

Don't rely on past precedent, it'll only lead you astray. Chances are this year could be the peak year for the Xbox 360 considering its already pushing ahead of last years sales and setting itself up for a very strong Christmas. Yet past precedent says that a 2nd place console should NOT have its peak year in year 5.

 

I still find it most amusing BHR thinks PS3 and Sony can get away with dropping the price $200 in the space of 2 years, but Microsoft can't do $50 in the same time? Even though, the PS3 is only JUST now profitable, and the 360's been profitable for years.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC SQUILL, TELL ME WHERE YOU'VE HIDDEN THE LOGIC!

again your pulling stuff from nowhere i never said 360 wont go to 149 249 this year i think it might not but its possible i simply said that this holiday wont be 360 dominate as most think b/c of recent 360 sales and gave my reasoning and that ps3 will pass 360 in 2011 worse case 2012

i also said that a 360s with kenict bundle wont be no where near 149 or 199 as you said seece

if the 250gb 360 goes to 249 and the new 250gb ps3 goes to 299 which i foresee happening with the ps3 then the prcie difference is only 50 factor in free blu ray and onlinei dont thin 50$ will sway many to buy a 360 over a ps3

then you got 360s arcade if that goes to 149 it will hurt sony but i think that when ms brings this console to this price this year sony will discontinue the 120gb to 249 to counter act things but the price difference will be 150 between 360s arcade and 250gb ps3 after 120gb stock run out but in 07 ps3 was able to outsell the 360 with a price difference of 130 so i dont think 360 will dominate this holiday as much as most are thinking in here

I've never said $149, I suggest you find a link to where I said that before you start spreading shit

Sony and Microsoft do not react at whim. Sony will ride out this holiday, they still have a good price point and move coming out.

IF Kinect is $99, big IF, a $249 bundle will be the lowest (because it's obvious a $149 360 will come), whilst I don't believe there will be a $199 bundle, I still think it's possible, if they sell Kinect at $99 making a profit.



 

Squilliam on 04 July 2010
Seece said:

I still find it most amusing BHR thinks PS3 and Sony can get away with dropping the price $200 in the space of 2 years, but Microsoft can't do $50 in the same time? Even though, the PS3 is only JUST now profitable, and the 360's been profitable for years.

WHERE IS THE LOGIC SQUILL, TELL ME WHERE YOU'VE HIDDEN THE LOGIC!


Inside my pants you'll find them. You just need Kinect to loosen up my buttons baby!

In any case the Xbox 360 Elite @ $299 was almost certainly profitable so its more than covering the discount of the older models if the current Xbox 360 250GB is on the market for the old price of the Elite.

I suspect that pricing has as much to do with product availability for the next 6 months between Kinect and the Xbox 360 revision as it does the cost of actually making them. Theres no point in cutting the price if it just means bigger shortages so if they have 10M Xbox 360 S between now and the holidays you'll see a lower price than if they only have say 6M to ship and the same applies to Kinect.

My guess as to why they released the revision in June is that they want to cover the losses for the price cuts and so that by the time August rolls around they can announce the pricing without distorting the market or forcing them to make even bigger price cuts and they have more time to ramp up production. This is my timeline which is my best guess as to what will happen.

  • June: Introduce Xbox revision, cut price in the U.S.
  • July: Make the revision worldwide and continue to ramp production up with a price cut E.U and others.
  • August: Announce core Kinect games and the price at $79-99 as well as introduce/announce new Live features.
  • September: Introduce the Arcade revision at $149, cut the 250GB to $249
  • October: Announce the Kinect bundle price, my guess is $199 and $299
  • November: Kinect bundle release along with Kinect.
  • December: Profit!

So the price cuts and revision should keep the Xbox 360 sales high.



Tease.

Acevil on 04 July 2010
Squilliam said:


  • June: Introduce Xbox revision, cut price in the U.S.
  • July: Make the revision worldwide and continue to ramp production up with a price cut E.U and others.
  • August: Announce core Kinect games and the price at $79-99 as well as introduce/announce new Live features.
  • September: Introduce the Arcade revision at $149, cut the 250GB to $249
  • October: Announce the Kinect bundle price, my guess is $199 and $299
  • November: Kinect bundle release along with Kinect.
  • December: Profit!

So the price cuts and revision should keep the Xbox 360 sales high.

I think you are only missing one thing. Advertise like no tomorrow!

Also I can't believe I didn't comment once in this thread!



 

BHR-3 on 04 July 2010
Seece said:
BHR-3 said:

luagh out loudf or some reason i knew it be you or seece quoting me in here i havent posted on the site for weeks now and today when i decide to boom there your are its like you guys have a magnet for my posts

 3.8 by end of august it would of been 4M now but vgc adjusted long time after i made the thread so i wasnt that far off with the data i was using also it was end of 2011 take over WW for me and still is

next fall ps3 will go to $199 and you better run for cover because the sales explosions will be massive as they were in 09 when i had the same exact thing written in my sig since the end of 08

I really worry about you sometimes ... don't take this so seriously. and I asure you, me and kowen don't care enough to "run for cover" sales don't consume us, I'm starting to think it's a different story for you.

That said your other post, Sony gonna bring out a revised slim and Microsoft isn't? other way around buddy, a $199, possibly $149 arcade launching with Kinect will cause a massive upsurge.

It's pretty .... how should I put it? hopeful, to be thinking sony's low PS3 sales atm are due to stock problems. Slim launched last september, they are selling less than 600k a month, there are no stock problems BHR.

Price cuts taper off fast this gen, that much we've learnt from all 3 consoles, so you hopeing $199 is going to explode it's sales, sure for a month or two, but if they have little else to offer, they'll taper off even faster.

This is why Kinect is key to Microsoft's success, this price cut and slim on it's own wouldn't have sustained past June next year, but IF kinect is a hit, IF, then it will sustaine sales for years to come, much like the wii did.

The other key here is casuals, the wider audience, something the move won't achieve this holiday with a $400 price point.

am i not gettin it right possibly $149 arcade launching with kenict doesnt that mean you think its possible for a aracde with you said with kenict for $149



                                                             

                                                                      Play Me

Seece on 04 July 2010
BHR-3 said:
Seece said:
BHR-3 said:

luagh out loudf or some reason i knew it be you or seece quoting me in here i havent posted on the site for weeks now and today when i decide to boom there your are its like you guys have a magnet for my posts

 3.8 by end of august it would of been 4M now but vgc adjusted long time after i made the thread so i wasnt that far off with the data i was using also it was end of 2011 take over WW for me and still is

next fall ps3 will go to $199 and you better run for cover because the sales explosions will be massive as they were in 09 when i had the same exact thing written in my sig since the end of 08

I really worry about you sometimes ... don't take this so seriously. and I asure you, me and kowen don't care enough to "run for cover" sales don't consume us, I'm starting to think it's a different story for you.

That said your other post, Sony gonna bring out a revised slim and Microsoft isn't? other way around buddy, a $199, possibly $149 arcade launching with Kinect will cause a massive upsurge.

It's pretty .... how should I put it? hopeful, to be thinking sony's low PS3 sales atm are due to stock problems. Slim launched last september, they are selling less than 600k a month, there are no stock problems BHR.

Price cuts taper off fast this gen, that much we've learnt from all 3 consoles, so you hopeing $199 is going to explode it's sales, sure for a month or two, but if they have little else to offer, they'll taper off even faster.

This is why Kinect is key to Microsoft's success, this price cut and slim on it's own wouldn't have sustained past June next year, but IF kinect is a hit, IF, then it will sustaine sales for years to come, much like the wii did.

The other key here is casuals, the wider audience, something the move won't achieve this holiday with a $400 price point.

am i not gettin it right possibly $149 arcade launching with kenict doesnt that mean you think its possible for a aracde with you said with kenict for $149

*sigh*, I didn't say bundled did I.

a possible $149 arcade launching ALONG SIDE kinect, better?