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damkira said:
stof said:
Entroper said:
stof said:
I'm watching it now. So far Mcain is proving once again that he his FAR too smart and reasonable to ever lead the Republican party.

I agree with McCain a lot, and he does seem much smarter than most of the other candidates, but he's got the wrong foreign policy. It's a deal breaker when we're in the middle of a war.


Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. His support of the Iraq war is easily his largest detraction. Well, that and his appearing with Jerry Falwell.


Especially after saying that the republican party shouldn't surrender to falwell and those types. McCain is finished though because of an immigration bill he introduced to the senate earlier in the year. Most republicans would never vote for him.

 


 That's the thing. He's spent his life in office being one of the U.S.'s most reasonable politicians, but that lost him the last leadership race, so now he realizes he has to completely back track on common sense to win this race. Of course, it's not going to work this time either.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

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I agree with some others that Huckabee actually made sense from an area, that has "faith based initiatives". I think McCain said some good things but his foreign policy is flawed. The democrats I have not watched. I don't really want to watch because you can usually tell who will win by the contributions. That's it. I really was scared of the afterthoughts of the registered republicans. Like "yeap, I can tell he is a good christian. Ima vote for 'im". Well it wasn't that bad but you get my drift. I like Ron Paul actually adressing the problems that NAFTA and the WTO have created (Of course signed by Clinton). If one candidate comes out and says I want to use reason, logic and problem solving to fix our country then I would vote for him. Otherwise it's more of the same bullshit. Republicans increase national deficit but don't raise taxes. Democrats increase taxes and decrease the national deficit. *Sigh*

 

Oh as far as planted questions. I think the party system is retarded. I'm more progressive than traditional and I could very well vote for a republican. Not a NEOCONSERVATIVE but a republican and I find it disheartening that people made such a big deal of the questions because they seemed pretty fair. Of course they were hard issues, like abortions gay rights etc, but I think that many moderates swing on those type of issues. I'm registered as an independent but this reptilian brained attitude that many of the republicans have is ridiculous. Sure the questions made them look bad at times, but then again when your ideas are closer to those "islamofascists" how hard can that be? One answer I remember completely to the gay brigadier general 

"Sir, the honest answer is that having homosexuals in the military would create problems because the majority of people who serve have conservative viewpoints." 

I wonder about people's conservative viewpoints and how they initially felt about blacks in vietnam. It just seems like doublespeak to me. 



That was a horrible debate.  Cooper didnt have the balls to shut rudy and romney up.  Huckabee is becoming the next George Bush.  The "aww shucks," or the "i'd like to have a barbecue with him."  But he is gonna raise taxes, continue to spread war, continue to push for "patriotic" laws that subdue civil liberties, and continue to spend more money than we have till the dollar turns into monopoly money.  Ron Paul the only sane one and the only conservative, only gets two questions, one of which said he couldnt win and the other that he was a crazy conspiracy theorist.  Yay media!!!



@Cheeseburger

I beg to differ on Huckabee being the next George Bush. Mike Huckabee is far more articulate and far funnier than the current President. Huckabee has the ability to disarm harsh and splitting questions with comedy. Not many people can do that, especially in the political sphere.

As far your claim "But he is gonna raise taxes, continue to spread war, continue to push for "patriotic" laws that subdue civil liberties, and continue to spend more money than we have till the dollar turns into monopoly money," I will have to disagree with you. Mike Huckabee won't raise taxes because he is a fiscal conservative. If anyone says otherwise read: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/11/huckabee_is_a_fiscal_conservat.html

And he is also going to push for the FairTax. The FairTax will change the entire country. It will change the personal sphere and the political sphere. Don't believe me? Read my sig.

When it comes to "...continue to spread war..." I don't know exactly how he will handle every situation but I believe he will secure this country against it's enemies. If that means we take military action against "Islamofascist" States then we take action against them. They are the spreaders of hate and intolerance.

If by "...continue to push for 'patriotic' laws..." you mean building a fence and punishing the employers that hire illegal aliens, then I would say you need to understand how porous our southern border is. That border can allow terrorists access to the heartland of America. Just imagine a terrorist attack on American soil... wait... nvm you don't have to imagine.

He also won't subdue civil liberties. He is against abortion and gay MARRIAGE because he believes that they are immoral. He believes that we should not re-define marriage, because that would re-define the family. The family, as Mike correctly understands, is the central unit to any civilization. If that is changed, poof, there goes America as we know it. He stands upon what he believes and makes policies based on that. You can't fault him for making policy based on his beliefs, although I will admit you can disagree with his beliefs.

The $Dollar$ is already MONOPOLY MONEY!!! This is because we have been spending money far too much and far too wastefully. This isn't because we are increasing military spending. This is because of government programs like "The War on Poverty" and "The War on Drugs" and Social Security and Medicare. Now know this, I know that there is a time and a place for some of the things those programs provide.
I say that they shouldn't be provided by the government, but instead should be provided by the private sector. Charities, philanthropists, and compassionate entrepreneurial companies could take over the governments role and be much more efficient. That would also remove a drain on the government's budget. If you take a look at those programs, you will see that they are actually counter-productive at getting people out of poverty, which is the goal of those programs!

/sigh

In any case, I will stop yapping on and on. I hope this doesn't start a flame war between Mike and Paul...



I want my WHOLE paycheck! I support the Fair Tax!

http://www.fairtax.org/

@Eomond 

George Bush was quite humorous... If you remember the debates between Bush and Al Gore there were many moments that made Bush the ammusing, loveable ordinary man. 

As for fiscal conservative... you must be joking. He raised taxes by 40% in Arkansas and he did it cause he spent money like it was his job.   And the Fair tax is a joke... A little slight of hand, smoke and mirrors.  We will take your income tax away, but dont look over hefre we are just going to tax you under a different name.  Ron Paul on the other hand wants to get rid of the income tax and replace it with NOTHING.  Which actually is possible if you don't think America is the new Roman Empire. 

As for "patriotic" laws and the attack on cfivil liberties I am in no way referring to immigration.  If anything Huckabee is the most liberal on immigration and supports using tax payer dollars to pay for illegal immigrants to go to college.  By "patriotic" laws and attack on civil liberties I am referring to the atrocity that is the Patriot Act, and other laws with names that are meant to suggest being against them is unpatriotic.  You know the kinda stuff that lets big brother listen to your phone calls, take people to secret prisons, destroys habeas corpus, or makes the freedom of speech a zone instead of a right.  See more on Huck and immigration here... http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071130/NATION/111300094/1001

As for attacking the islamofacists... facist is a term to describe corporate controlled government and society... you know kinda like what this country is becoming.  We have created more new enemies than we have killed of the old enemies.  We give Iraq billions of dollars of weapons to fight Iran, only to spend billions of dollars to disarm Iraq of the weapons we gave them 20 years later.  We give billions of dollars to the taliban to fight the soviet union only to spend billions to disarm them of our weapons 20 years later.  We give billions of dollars in weapons to saudi arabia(home of most of the 911 highjackers), only to piss off israel so we give them billions of dollars.  We give billions to one dictator only to overthrow another (Which makes more people hate us).  All the while spending trillions of dollars we dont have.  And paying it off by borrowing money from China and printing new money out of thin air (which of course debases the currency which is why we are on the verge of a dollar and economic collapse.)  All our trillions of dollars medling in foreign affairs are just canceling each other out.  But it meanwhile is creating enemies who see us as two faced and manipulative, and it destroys our economy.  We are letting them win.  Its not their goal to beat us through force (that is a lost cause we are a military super power, they have the most basic of weapons, the most advance of which are the ones we gave them)  They are beating us by scaring ourselves into cherry picking our constitution, over extending our military, and spending money we dont have all the way to economic collapse.

The Huckster seems like a nice guy... but he is no Conservative.  Conservatism looks like it is going the way of the Dodo bird.  Ron Paul is one of the last that remains.  Republicans and Dems have become the same money spending, nation building, big government, monsters.  Don't let the bickering over which country they are going to invade or which government agency they are going to expand, confuse you into thinking they are different.



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@Cheeseburger's attack on the FairTax

The problem is implementing the FairTax is the 16th amendment, and unless that gets repealed then yes, taxing could continue under both avenues. BUT if you repeal the 16th Amendment then you can safely implement the FairTax. It simply is the biggest and best idea in politics since sliced bread.

Would you rather have a transparent tax like the FairTax or would you rather to continue to suffer under the current tax law.

Ok look at it this way. I make $400 a week. But under current law I pay about 22% in taxes before I ever get that money. Not only am I paying taxes for me working, but my employer is also paying taxes for me too. They match the Social Security tax up to X% (I am drawing a blank as to what the actual number is right now). They also have costs of complying with the current tax code. The total cost of the current tax code to myself: $400 - 22% = $312 I take home weekly. Now for the potential cost to myself: Employer payroll tax + Tax Compliance costs = money that could go to me in the form of a raise. So monthly i have ($312 * 4) = $1248.
I would get some money back at the end of the year, but I should not have paid those taxes to begin with. They give me that money back when I could have been saving that money with interest. So they just cost me even more...

Now the FairTax's turn. I make $400 a week. I take home all $400. I also get a monthly check of about $200 from the Prebate check from the government. The Prebate is the amount of taxes a person making the poverty level would pay under the FairTax. Now you also take away the cost to my Employer: the matching Social Security tax up to X%, and the cost of Compliance under the current tax code, plus other business taxes.
(As a side note, Businesses never pay taxes, they pass them along to the consumer)
Now the total cost of the FairTax to myself: $400 - 0%= $400 I take home weekly. Now add the Monthly Prebate check ($400 * 4 weeks) + $200 = $1800 monthly.
$1800 monthly + potential raises = Even more money for me! Yay!

Now I would be still paying taxes, but only when I purchased something. If I spent only up to the poverty level I would not really pay taxes because of the Prebate check. The FairTax replaces all income taxes with a national retail sales tax of 23%. BUT because of the reduced cost to companies for employing people, and for compliance to the current tax code, PLUS various other business taxes, the cost of any item you buy would not go up. So no worries there.

Also by implementing the FairTax you would end the underground economy of prostitutes, drug-dealers, and other various nefarious dealings of money under-the-radar. All those people would then pay tax anytime they bought something. (Again up to the poverty level they wouldn't because of the Prebate).

The FairTax would make America the Tax Haven of the world bringing in more new jobs and more new companies than have existed in America. It would bring an economic golden age for America.

Also by implementing the FairTax, you would end the behind the scenes manipulation of the current tax code. While the FairTax would be able to be adjusted, it would be much more apparent and obvious to EVERYONE, making a tax hike near impossible.

These are just the responses that I can come up with off the top of my head as to why we should implement the FairTax.



I want my WHOLE paycheck! I support the Fair Tax!

http://www.fairtax.org/

Without even having to read that... (which i will anyway)  The pros and cons and which is better between our current tax system and a new system known as the Fair tax, is debatable.  But if you are for less taxes... Then how could you not support Ron Paul who will fight to rid us of the income tax, and replace it with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  It may sound crazy on the surface, no tax how is that possible.... But it actually is possible.  Government revenue would still be at the levels of the 1990s, which would be plenty to support a still grossly overgrown government.  The only way removing the income tax and replacing it with nothing would not work, is if you want the government to continue to expand and be more and more apart of everyone's every day life.  If you want more departments and more beurocracies, then by all means switch to the fair tax, or keep the current system.  This of course should be the opposite of what all true conservatives want.  I was not attacking the Fair tax.  Why not have niether?  Vote for Ron Paul.



Rubang B said:
Ickalanda said:
As long as a socialist or communist doesn't get elected I'm good. I really would rather a Republican candidate win this though because I don't want Hilary or Obama as president. Hilary wants socialized health care which is a form of socialism and only worsens the quality of hospitals in a country because not as many people want to be a doctor since their pay is not as good as in the current system.

Also I support war and think that it is a good option in some situations and whatever you believe about Iraq leaving now would not be a good idea.
 

 How do you just... support war?  What does that even mean?  That's like saying you support rape or something.


You sir, are not thinking your statement through at all, and I personally take offense to your comment as a supporter of our efforts in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Your statement equating supporting the war effort (not liking war in general) to supporting rape is blatent ignorance. War sucks, I hate it, but sometimes it's necessary. For example, if we never went to war at all (as the purely anti-war [sheep] people want) the US would have just rolled over to Nazi Germany, we'd live under an evil dictatorship, and there would be no more Jews. We would have left Afghanistan alone after Osama attacked our nation and Afghanistan wouldn't give him up. This would have resulted in many more terrorist attacks around the world. Saddam would still be in power, defying the UN as he had for so many years.

Whether you support the reasons for going to war in Iraq or not, the point is that leaving now would be a disaster. We have to stay until the job is done, we can't just leave and create a vacuum. That would result in HUGE civilian deaths and chaos just like the millions killed after we left Vietnam. We don't like war, and don't let the morons on the far left convince you of that, we just think that in the world we live in (where evil does exist) war, regrettably, is sometimes necessary.

I wish just as much as you that we could live in a world without war or violence, but I also recognize that it's not possible (AKA, I live in reality). In the same way that Police who can use force are necessary to keep a relatively few ill intentioned citizens from destroying a nation, wars are also necessary to defend against tyrrany and opression. Without police having the ability to use force, criminals would take the opportunity to run the streets. Without the use of force against attack and real threats, peace loving, free countries would be destroyed by dictatorships that want to expand their power. If you'd read a history book you would see that.

Stop being so naive.



And the fair tax kicks ass. Everybody should read the book or do some real research before attacking it.



@Cheeseburger #2

Now as for Mike Huckabee being a conservative: He isn't a Ronald Reagan. He has problems with some of his ideas, I admit that. But he is more conservative fiscally and socially than any of the others.

Sorry but Ron Paul is a Libertarian. He isn't a Republican even though that is the designated party he is running under. He may have several conservative ideas and even some great ones, but I believe he is wrong about the problem we face internationally. Islamic Terrorism. And yes Islamofascism is a word and is very descriptive of the enemy we face. The "Corporate" entity however isn't a company, but a religious group. Not all Muslim people believe what the extremists believe, but those that don't simply do not believe everything to Koran says. No offense to anyone reading this but it is true.

Also the Patriot Act does not allow the government the "Domestic Spying" powers you claim it to have. It does allow the government to listen and record calls between this country and known terrorist nations and people. If it did allow the government to spy on all of my phone calls, I would have a problem. It does not allow that however. As for Habeas Corpus in wartime, All the past Presidents suspended that right during wartime. We are at war whether we like to admit it or not. Surprisingly President Bush hasn't suspended that right to Americans... Only American citizens are accorded that right, so anyone saying that we should give the prisoners in Club Gitmo access to our courts is a fool. They are not even POWs because they are not members of a nationstate. The Geneva Convention does not give them any rights.

As to the spending and size of the government, I will agree that it is WAY TOO MUCH! I want the government to decrease spending and size by 25-50%. Also I agree that the military is over-stretched. I believe though that we need to increase the size of our military to cover this problem.

IF we want to keep our Freedom of Speech, then we need to support Michael Savage in his fight against the group C.A.I.R. a known terrorist sympathizer and is funded by terrorist groups such as Hezbollah. He is the front line in the fight to keep America the way it used to be.

PS. I will agree that Conservatism does seem to be fading, but that is because most Politicians don't have the balls to stick to a true conservative message and principles. It is not because Conservatism does not work.



I want my WHOLE paycheck! I support the Fair Tax!

http://www.fairtax.org/