Eomund said: @Cheeseburger #2 Now as for Mike Huckabee being a conservative: He isn't a Ronald Reagan. He has problems with some of his ideas, I admit that. But he is more conservative fiscally and socially than any of the others. Sorry but Ron Paul is a Libertarian. He isn't a Republican even though that is the designated party he is running under. He may have several conservative ideas and even some great ones, but I believe he is wrong about the problem we face internationally. Islamic Terrorism. And yes Islamofascism is a word and is very descriptive of the enemy we face. The "Corporate" entity however isn't a company, but a religious group. Not all Muslim people believe what the extremists believe, but those that don't simply do not believe everything to Koran says. No offense to anyone reading this but it is true. Also the Patriot Act does not allow the government the "Domestic Spying" powers you claim it to have. It does allow the government to listen and record calls between this country and known terrorist nations and people. If it did allow the government to spy on all of my phone calls, I would have a problem. It does not allow that however. As for Habeas Corpus in wartime, All the past Presidents suspended that right during wartime. We are at war whether we like to admit it or not. Surprisingly President Bush hasn't suspended that right to Americans... Only American citizens are accorded that right, so anyone saying that we should give the prisoners in Club Gitmo access to our courts is a fool. They are not even POWs because they are not members of a nationstate. The Geneva Convention does not give them any rights. As to the spending and size of the government, I will agree that it is WAY TOO MUCH! I want the government to decrease spending and size by 25-50%. Also I agree that the military is over-stretched. I believe though that we need to increase the size of our military to cover this problem. IF we want to keep our Freedom of Speech, then we need to support Michael Savage in his fight against the group C.A.I.R. a known terrorist sympathizer and is funded by terrorist groups such as Hezbollah. He is the front line in the fight to keep America the way it used to be. PS. I will agree that Conservatism does seem to be fading, but that is because most Politicians don't have the balls to stick to a true conservative message and principles. It is not because Conservatism does not work.

Freakin' right on! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Cheeseburger said: Ron Paul is running on many of the platforms of George Bush in 2000.  No nation building, small government, lower taxes, lower spending.  Bush just happend to be lying... or changed, like the rest of the republican party.  Just because everyone around Ron Paul has changed and become liberals, doesn't make him less republican or conservative.  He is against abortion, he is pro 2nd amendment and against all infringments of it.  He IS a republican despite what Neo conservatives are trying to paint him as. As for using loop holes in definitions in order to go against the Geneva Convention.... well its just unfortunate that we have come to the level of which candidate can be more like the TV show 24.  You realize that almost none of those we hold are ever charged with any relationship to terrorism.  Most of the people are in there because warlords didnt feel like paying their debts so they accused people they owed money to get them taken.  90% of the ones we hold have done nothing.  You realize there are people like a man from Canada who was taken to a secret prison over seas, tortured, only to find out he did nothing.. And half the ones that do admit to stuff only do it cause they are forced to.  Give someone 10 minutes and a baseball bat and you can get someone to admit to anything they didnt do. As for your feeling that the military is overstretch so we should expand it... How do you propose we do that?  Recruitment is down, no one wants to join, desertion is way up.  In order to make up for it we are allowing criminals to join, people with mental instability, and the ones that are in the military are forced to do double tours to make up for it.  You dont just sign a paper and the military gets bigger.  The only way we could do what you propose is a draft.  And how long will that draft be enacted.  The war on terror is a farce like the war on drugs or poverty.  It is open ended and simply is a means for continued involvement any where any time.  Terror is a tactic not a people.  Its been used for 1000 of years, and it will continue to be used.  War on terror is never ending.  You dont stop terror by fighting it, you stop it at its cause you stop people from hating which is what makes them use the terror.  They dont hate use because of our freedoms.  They hate us because of our continued involvement overseas, our support of ruthless dictators, and our overthrowing of others.  If China stuck 150,000 soldiers in America, you better believe we would be pissed.  They are horrible people, but we cant continue to give them reasons to hate us and make others hate us.  We let 19 men destroy our country.  The after shock of 911 was way worse than the intial attacks.  We have done what they couldnt even hope to do.  Destroy our country from the inside.  According to Pat Buchanan and man others... US could very likely be a 3rd world country in 50 years at the rate we are going.

What world are you living in??

They hate and kill anyone who does not subscribe to their extreme views about islam. Their goal is a worldwide Islamic dictatorship. They kill other muslims who do not agree with them. They demand the annhialation of the Jewish people. This is not my opinion, this is what their leaders say, what their documents say, and what their actions show. If you think they hate us for pure political reasons, you are simply naive about the situation and don't understand their beliefs AT ALL.

 

What world are you living in?  What I said is a stated fact from Bin Laden CIA analasysts. You have never actually read or listened to Bin Laden's reasons for attacking us on 911, in his own words, have you? His own number one reason was our military presence in saudi arabia. http://youtube.com/watch?v=DAt6Pf7jZjA  I suggest you watch.

Timmah!, I suggest you read Chapter 2 of the 9/11 Commission Report. It makes it very clear why Bin Laden attacked the U.S.:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec2.pdf

When you go around trying to control regions, don't be surprised if there is blowback.

Cheeseburger said: Ron Paul is running on many of the platforms of George Bush in 2000. No nation building, small government, lower taxes, lower spending. Bush just happend to be lying... or changed, like the rest of the republican party. Just because everyone around Ron Paul has changed and become liberals, doesn't make him less republican or conservative. He is against abortion, he is pro 2nd amendment and against all infringments of it. He IS a republican despite what Neo conservatives are trying to paint him as. Modern conservatism began with people like Barry Goldwater. It just so happens that Barry Goldwater's son supports Ron Paul. As for using loop holes in definitions in order to go against the Geneva Convention.... well its just unfortunate that we have come to the level of which candidate can be more like the TV show 24. You realize that almost none of those we hold are ever charged with any relationship to terrorism. Most of the people are in there because warlords didnt feel like paying their debts so they accused people they owed money to get them taken. 90% of the ones we hold have done nothing. You realize there are people like a man from Canada who was taken to a secret prison over seas, tortured, only to find out he did nothing.. And half the ones that do admit to stuff only do it cause they are forced to. Give someone 10 minutes and a baseball bat and you can get someone to admit to anything they didnt do. As for your feeling that the military is overstretch so we should expand it... How do you propose we do that? Recruitment is down, no one wants to join, desertion is way up. In order to make up for it we are allowing criminals to join, people with mental instability, and the ones that are in the military are forced to do double tours to make up for it. You dont just sign a paper and the military gets bigger. The only way we could do what you propose is a draft. And how long will that draft be enacted. The war on terror is a farce like the war on drugs or poverty. It is open ended and simply is a means for continued involvement any where any time. Terror is a tactic not a people. Its been used for 1000 of years, and it will continue to be used. War on terror is never ending. You dont stop terror by fighting it, you stop it at its cause you stop people from hating which is what makes them use the terror. They dont hate use because of our freedoms. They hate us because of our continued involvement overseas, our support of ruthless dictators, and our overthrowing of others. If China stuck 150,000 soldiers in America, you better believe we would be pissed. They are horrible people, but we cant continue to give them reasons to hate us and make others hate us. We let 19 men destroy our country. The after shock of 911 was way worse than the intial attacks. We have done what they couldnt even hope to do. Destroy our country from the inside. According to Pat Buchanan and man others... US could very likely be a 3rd world country in 50 years at the rate we are going. You are right politicians havn't had the balls to do what they preach. Except Ron Paul. I challenge you to find one of his votes in congress that is inconsistant with smaller government, less taxes, and a protection of the constitution.

As for Ron Paul being a Republican, I may have spoken too much. He is a Republican by party and has some conservative ideals, but I stand by may words. He has run on the Libertarian Ticket before. I do not know all of his social beliefs but when another libertarian(Neal Boortz) calls him(Ron Paul) a libertarian, I tend to take notice. I believe that desertion is up because they feel like they are being attacked from within America as well as from the militants shooting the bullets that fly by their heads. AND THEY ARE! most people support the military and the troops. However they do not always hear that. If you listen to the families of the troops deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, you will hear them pleading with people to support the troops. They feel very similar to the troops in this respect, they are being attacked as well. The people who are attacking these honorable heroes are the LIBERAL MEDIA and the ANTI-WAR LEFT! They have the bigger mouth-piece to the people of America. The New Media has supported the troops and the Drive-by Media cuts them down. The far-leftists have always derided the troops and they always seem to make their message heard on the media... Imagine that. The troops feel depressed and are leaving when they attacked from those who should be supporting them. They are in the highest stress job in the world. We need to treat our heroes with great respect and honor. Sadly we don't, and what is the result of this? Lower recruitment for our armed forces. Who can blame them!? If you are in the highest stress job in the world and get no love or respect for that job, in which they are the best in the world,why would that bring floods of people to sign up for the military? It wouldn't. The liberal media only hurts the military. I won't argue against Ron Paul, but I do believe that he is incorrect in the larger War on Terror (which is an incorrect phrase, as Terrorism is a tactic. It should be called the War on Islamic Terrorism or the War on Islamofascism.) Other than that I agree with Ron Paul mostly. But since I do not agree with him on this very important subject I cannot vote for him. We did not start this War against Islamofascism, The 9/11 Report even says, "[Islmac Extremist groups] were are war with us, but we were not at war with them." We simply cannot draw back our forces and expect them to leave us alone. They will follow us here because they believe us to be an evil in this world. Michael Savage says it best, "They would rather die than let their sons become gay and their daughters become sluts!" We need to Restrict and/or Ban Pornography. Then the most destructive influence in the World would be slowed. My idea (and I know I will pick up a TON of flack/flaming for this) is to restrict all porno sites to the .XXX realm. Pron sites would not be able to register a .COM or .NET or the like. They would be restricted to .XXX, then everyone who signs up for Internet Service would have to OPT-IN to receive it. By Default your ISP would not allow access to the .XXX realm, and that would be perfectly fine with me. It is easily implemented and fairly cheap too. ... How did we get here again? :)

I will add one response to that before I think we should just agree to disagree, as to not continue this disscussion into eternity (like the war on terror). 

"Support the troops"  with all do respect is a bumper sticker.  A line not much different from the naming of the "Patriot" Act.  It is an attempt to claim all those against a particular policy is some how anti american, unpatriotic, or does not support our troops.  I am constantly bombarded with politicians saying "Don't defund our troops, support the troops"  Please don't use troops as leverage, or as talking points in order to get support.  No one is suggestion defunding troops, or not supporting troops.  They are suggesting defunding the policy that is the war on terror.  Please don't use troops.

Do you think they like fighting an endless war?  Im pretty sure they would take coming home and being with their families any day.  They are doing their duty, and they are doing what our politicians ask of them.  We dont have to continue to leave them in hostile territory into the unforseeable future in order to support them.  I would say, thanking them and letting the come home would be just the kind of support they would like.

Sorry double post...

But the Democrats are withholding money from the War effort in Iraq! How can anyone not support the War but support the Troops? The job of the troops is being a soldier. Soldiers fight wars. If you do not support what the troops are doing, you are not supporting the troops.

While I would consider that the phrase "Support the Troops" heavily used, even over used, it is simply the best way to put it. If you are not sending money to provide the equipment the troops use, you are not supporting the Troops. The Dems in Congress are trying to do just that, cut the funding out from underneath the troops.

The Dems are trying to force a withdrawal from a successful initiative in Iraq. They are trying to do so by forcing the President to sign the funding bill that includes a requirement to withdrawal the troops on a time line. This is like trying to play a ball game (any sport really) and near the end of the game your coach starts pulling players from the field/court/etc. without replacing them and still hopes to win the game. IT WON'T WORK!

So basically you are saying if we are ever not at war... we are not supporting the troops.... Cause a troop's duty is to fight wars, so they want war, so we should give them war.... What!?!?!