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Forums - PC Discussion - Official Star Craft 2 Beta Thread

damn, that roach thing is gonna suuuuck early game.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

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Machina said:

Roach nerf is unexpected :o

As Protoss, early in the Beta they were hell to deal with, but after several nerfs to the other races and Roaches themselves over the last few patches they haven't been a problem at all.

I really wish Blizz would stop nerfing everything to here and back. I was in the Beta from the start and it was so much more enjoyable than it is in its current state. Constant nerfing has made the game so much duller and less exciting, all in the name of balance. I'm starting to think that they're wrong to strive for 'balance' anyway - the original StarCraft is all the better because individual units can create situations which are horrendously imbalanced (Defiler, HT, Reaver, Science Vess. etc., could all turn the tide of a battle in seconds). That just doesn't seem to happen anymore.

Perhaps, instead of nerfing everything, they should only ever buff. It's a thought >_>


Only buffing is impossible, and would make for a terrible game ultimately. If one unit does too much damage how do you deal with it? Buff the hit points and damage of every other unit in the game? Nerfing is simpler, quicker, and just plain better.

Personally, I prefer actually balanced units. It leads to the game possibly being balanced on all levels, rather than only worrying about the top end. All those units could be dealt with in SC, but if you didn't know how to counter them then you were screwed. This means lower end play suffers as people race to pull out their game winning cheese attack. I rather like being able to have involved and complicated battles filled with scrambling for strategy even if it is just between two people who suck.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Roach was simply too strong for a one supply unit, it's counterparts in other races all cost 2 supply. The main problem Roach 1 supply was causing is the endgame, where 200 supply zerg could walk over anyone without any problems, thanks to the swarm of 1 supply Roaches as a meatshield.

Roach is cheaper than both Stalker and Marauder, has more HP, higher base attack, and with upgrades is the fastest of the 3. Yes they have slightly slower attack speed and a smaller range, but thanks to burrow they are almost impossible to kill and great for surprise attacks.



MY HYPE LIST: 1) Gran Turismo 5; 2) Civilization V; 3) Starcraft II; 4) The Last Guardian; 5) Metal Gear Solid: Rising

Machina said:

*shrug* I feel that complicated, micro-intensive battles were much more commonplace in the original. Interesting casters have been removed or substantially nerfed, and those that were introduced and had a large impact initially have been nerfed because they're viewed as overpowered before people had the time to really adjust to them (instead they just seem to go over to the official forums and if enough of them whine it gets nerfed). At the start I was really impressed by some of the new units, and that made the removal of some classic units feel fine, but now it feels to me as if the game has been 'balanced' to the point of blandness.

I dunno, maybe I'm looking back at the original with too much nostalgia or expecting too much from a mere Beta, but improved interface and graphics aside, the Beta has become a disappointment over the course of time.



And while I'm moaning, Battle.net 2.0 is also worse than the original B.net - no chat rooms at launch?! Are they nuts? That alone makes StarCraft 2 massively inferior to the original.

Micro intensive in the vein of SC1 wrecks lower level balance though. The curve stops being a gentle slop that people can climb, and takes a sharp climb. I can see some of the problems, but a lot of the units are still very powerful. Few of the casters have gotten really nasty nerf that stuck. For example, the net effect of Infestors Neural Parasite ability has been removing the time limit, removing the travel time, and making it researched. Not a bad trade off really. Ravens have been buffed a couple times, and are ridiculous when you start using them properly.

Honestly it just sounds like you are getting burned on the game like anyone would. Thinking back I really can't name too many nerfs to make units bland so much as just less abusable. Marines come out slower now, but are still the same unit. Roaches are a dim shadow of their former self power-wise, but still fill the same roles they always did. I just don't get how making a unit more in-line with how a game plays out makes it bland.

As for nerfs, well that is just a symptom of having your strategy be on the receiveing end of a butt fucking once too many times. People whine non-stop about Reapers, Force Field, and Void Rays. Sentries also break the whole casters being weak due to common whining argument as well, but that is a digression at this point. I can't say I am not the same way as Marine rushes used to be a staple of my army when I first started. I also fear a Banshee nerf any day now due to how badly it cripples Zerg. Still you have to expect it during a Beta.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

I got in the beta earlier this week, I'm still learning a lot. But if ppl want to play against me, feel free to pm me! (protoss player)



 

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I agree about battles being less micro-intensive.

It's a shame becasue learning basic micro isn't that hard really.

Blizzard added phoenix micro though.



I LOVE ICELAND!

Eesh, this is how I feel about zerg right now.

 

 

I know it's a beta, and they are essentially just twisting the dials to see how it effects strategies, and how the community will adapt to various buffs/nerfs and abilities, but with patch 12 I just don't even know what to do with zerg, which is the race I was playing before. In their situation report for patch 12 they said "Please keep in mind that we are continuing to keep a close eye on many of these changes to better gauge their effects and may not apply all of our planned changes into any one patch. This allows us to track the effects a bit better and layer in our planned changes to better set the pace of how they affect balance overall." So I know this isn't how it's actually supposed to be balanced, they are just tracking the effects of certain changes as they gradually mess with things. But honestly, I think I'm going to play as protoss until patch 13.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Hydra/Roach nerfes were needed. Those units were used way too much.

Now all that's left is nerfing the Immortal and Marauders.

Especially the marauders...



I LOVE ICELAND!

So don't suppose anyone has an extra beta key left? I'm desperate to try it.

I bought every single blizzard non-expansion game and yet still nothing!



darconi said:
So don't suppose anyone has an extra beta key left? I'm desperate to try it.

I bought every single blizzard non-expansion game and yet still nothing!


It's the last day of the GameStop pre-order bonus promotion. You still have a few hours left if you really want a key.



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