Mmmm.. sort of, i love retro games too, but you just ditched them as not AAA quality games and thats one of the problems we are facing right now, Wii Ware already has Contra Rebirth, Castlevania Rebirth, New Gradius, New Bomberman, Megaman 9.. etc... but none of this games are nearly as good as their original versions, they lack the quality control, they lack the innovation they had when they were first released

On the other side, there is Excite Trucks, New Super Mario Bros Wii, and Punch Out Wii , this games are the result of putting quality into classics, this games are not remakes, they are competely new games (ok Punch Out not so much) using great graphics, great quality and innovation for the sake of creating a better, not just same ol thing for the sake of the retro!! yh!!, if we had more classics being threated this way on the Wii... then the Wii would be the best consoel ever and i would spend all my days nose bleeding, mmm.... someone should make a topic about retro games treatment, its an interesting topic developers havent grasped yet, i seriously hope Sonic 4 gets a good treatment and put Sonic back in the action, but.. i seriously doubt it, it should have been released as a regular game and not as a downloadable, that fact alone doesnt speak well of the game... developers are not taking it seriously because according to them its probably not a real game.. shame on them

(Lol at this thread, the subject changes every 2 pages, im barely able of reading all of it, gotta love this forum)

That's LOL worthy after Ubisoft put Assassin's Creed on PSP with the scaled down open world, despite the PSP having the lowest software sales and highest piracy of all the consoles.  As for Dead Space, don't bother it's not that great, as a TPS it would have been a lot better as a lightgun game it strayed away from what makes lightgun games fun.  The CoD games I much prefer on Wii or PC honestly if you have it PC not much reason to buy it on Wii unless you like the Wii controls, which I do, and I own(ed) CoD4 on 360, PC, and now Wii, I really don't care for the scaled down graphics, especially on multiplayer, the Wii controls just make it so much better than other console versions.

As for sales, you have things like Star Wars TFU outselling the PS3 version (until the release bump) and respectible against the 360 version.  Then you have games like I talked about with Spider Man Web of Shadows selling on par with the PS3 version yet you know it didn't cost as much to make that Wii version.

Really man what do you think the Wii does well? People release competent games on Wii using the core genres and they get praise for it, look at Resident Evil 4, it's called the definitive version on Wii, it showed that TPS could be done very well if someone wanted to.  Same with CoD4 on Wii, it's gotten nothing but praise and its selling well.  Then you have Tatsunoko vs Capcom on track to outsell the other vs series even the most popular one Marvel vs Capcom (which marvel is a popular American IP). So there you have a Action/Horror, FPS, and Fighter all doing rather well both in reviews and sales.  All games across all platforms can be good and done well, some games can even be enhanced with the controls, so really I'm not buying the excuse.

I don't see it as an excuse.  The Wii is very good at a lot of games, and they sell well, but a lot of third party developers are targeting genres/titles that sell way better on HD consoles and the HD consoles have a far larger install base (demographically) for those titles.

I guess I'm saying that Wii owners wanting more support from certain developers probably aren't going to get much love as for those developers it will always be the smaller platform (raw install base notwithstanding).  That's very unlikely to change, in fact it's more likely to become more reinforced over time going forward.

AC on PSP BTW is a clear attempt to cash in which didn't go well, not an indication of main direction for developers.  In principle I agree if you're going to cut down something like AC for the PSP it seems obvious to do it for the Wii, but they felt they could leverage the platform connection between PSP/PS3 and they were wrong.

Pretty much right.  Sunk cost are expenses you have already incurred.  The fallacy comes in when people/businesses say that they have spent too much money not to continue on when a better alternative presents itself.

For example, I buy tickets to a concert, and those tickets cost $100.  I loose the tickets.  Do I buy more tickets?  Most people would say that you should only buy the tickets again if you think the cocert is worth $200.  That is wrong.  The $100 is gone no matter what you do and thus a 'sunk cost' which should have no barring on your decision.  So the question should be 'is the concert worth spending $100 on'.  

If capcom actually said that they have spent to much money to stop in the direction they have gone in, then the stock holders or the board of directors need to step in and fire those managers and put in people who understand concepts such as sunk costs. 

If capcom said that the money they have spent on HD development means that future HD development would be more profitable than switching to SD, then that would make more sense and Capcom should continue in that direction (even if the decision to develop HD assets was the wrong decision in the past, those are the sunk costs and should not be considered in the decision).   

Heh that's not true at all, hell even the DS has had 2 Assassin's Creed games.  I mean you want more reinforcement of that look at Army of Two the 40th day or Dantes Inferno both of which have or will have a PSP version. 

Demographics follow games not consoles, its simple, you put the games that gamers want on consoles they sell, people have gone out and bought a Wii just for a few games, but they would buy more if more was put there, promoted it was there, and shown to be something worth buying other than the rubbish that third parties throw together and call a "real effort"

I'm not here to say "all games should come to Wii" I could really give a shit, I have all the consoles, I can buy them where they land, hell most of them like Assassin's Creed, Army of Two, etc, just aren't that great, but those types of titles have always been around, they are the life blood for most companies, you put out an average game, its said to be special, its not but it still sells, and you're onto the next game. 

But if that's going to be your plan for making money they can put it on the Wii for a fraction of that cost, hype it, get the gamers all excited, put out some nice ads, tell them why they should buy it, and like most games it'll sell, there has yet to be a real effort like that on Wii from third parties, everyone sees it, everyone knows it, but everyone wants to blame something else.  Hell we're in 2010 and there's been like a total of two Game Informer cover ads for Wii games, with the whole "info blowout" and such, first one being Red Steel that sold to gamers despite being an average game at best, and now Epic Mickey. Companies simply aren't putting in the time nor the effort both in marketing and in games on Wii and it's painfully obvious, but when they release their financial reports and they're still bleeding money it's also obvious their current plans aren't working right.

That sir is why I don't buy the excuse, cause that's what it is.

I'll say it one more time, then we're going to have to agree to disagree.

If certain games were put on Wii, advertised, hyped, etc. as you say I am very sure they would still fail to sell to expectations and would fall far short of their HD versions.  Note again I'm talking about the specific types of games third parties are focusing on for HD consoles vs Wii as that seems to be the thrust of this post - why aren't the publishers/developers focusing on Wii for those titles?

So they don't bother, apart from the odd experiment to see what happens.

According to this site CoD:WaW sold around 1.5 on Wii and Reflex less than 1M - that's not good enough given the install base vs the sales on HD consoles.

Also, the other point I'm making you seen to have missed is many of those developers clearly see the Wii as too weak.  IW and many others have made it clear they're not interested.  For them it doesn't meet their minimum specs for what they think they need to meet their goals.

On the other hand, look at what something like Wii Music can sell, or Mario, or Carnival games - or Force Unleased as you mention.  I just don't see a lot of those developers trying the Wii, although clearly some publishers, like Activision, will try getting others to port to the console to see if they can maximise profits, but that seems to be a minority activity at the moment, and I don't see it catching on.

The PSP is getting attention as a handheld (one of only two on the market of note - ignorning iPhone for a moment) and I think is a red herring in your arguement as the handheld market isn't the same as the home consoles and efforts on it should be viewed in a different light as I believe they represent a different strategy.

Now, as I said in an earlier post, when Natal and Arc/Gem/Whatever hit, and the option is there to release a title on all three platforms using motion controls, then we might see more support across all three, but until then it's very unlikely.  Post those releases I expect to see developers try and leverage motion controls across the board - but again I doubt we'll see that touch the very large AAA franchises that focus on HD consoles, and of course with Nintendo holding the keys to their franchises on Wii the basic divide will remain in place.

Anyway, I guess we just see it differently.

This is what is currently happening to the Duke Nukem Forever team.

"According to this site CoD:WaW sold around 1.5 on Wii and Reflex less than 1M - that's not good enough given the install base vs the sales on HD consoles."

Both those versions lack local multiplayer aside from the rail shooter co-op. So it's not a valid comparison until no other factors that lower sales are out of the equation, which is not happening yet.

Your argument is based on "it won't happen" despite no one actually trying to do any of what I've stated.  That's not a very good argument until someone actually does try and then fails, and will be the day I shut my trap about it

As for CoD sales, they're much in line with last gen CoD sales, you know back when it wasn't advertised and hyped for consoles, like I've been arguing this entire time.  You know if you put effort into marketing it could sell.  Right now the CoD games on Wii are selling on name and the fact that they are good games, you really can't call someone out on a red herring and then do the same thing yourself because the Wii versions were put into a drastically different situation vs the other versions.

As for IW saying they're not working on the Wii cause of specs... well thats really just complete fabrications... they were the original ones to start porting the CoD4 engine to Wii, that sounds like development to me... they didn't have it done in time for CoD4 so they handed the engine to Treyarch to finish up and put their W@W game on, then they gave them a good budget to port over CoD4 while IW worked on MW2... it all makes sense from a development stand point, they're building a base on Wii but because of issues it missed the CoD4 hype train.

As for handhelds, its all apart of business I'm not talking markets, I'm talking why make a game that is basically like developing a ground up PS2 game for a system that really doesn't sell software that well, and if they're going to do that it only takes a little more effort to port it up to give themselves more profit and start to build userbases on Wii.  It really doesn't make sense and that was the point I made not some "well handhelds are different so they should be viewed in a different light" when people do everyday when a game for the Wii comes out and becomes a 100k "flop" but then sells a million + and has more million sellers then say PSP or PS3...

There's a giant pink elephant in the room that no company wants to address, it's there, it's large, it's obvious, they're losing a shit ton of money, and yet they still want to say it doesn't exist.

Why weren't those games the same experience, though?  That's the point.  The Wii isn't the best platform for those titles.  You're not going to get a compariosn because the Wii isn't really the best console to host them.

Last gen you had PS2 with support for most genres pretty well, even including a few decent selling FPS.  You had Xbox with a limited library and some great FPS success and you had PC for most FPS/online, RTS, and high end graphical/online gaming.

This gen you've got the Wii for 'pure' games as I like to think of them like Mario, Wii Sports, etc. plus lots of fun, casual titles, weak support for FPS/online and hardcore graphical titles, the HD consoles which offer strong support for FPS/TPS/online and graphical high end titles (for a console) and PC with a shift to MMO/Strategy.  It's a fragmented market and it's not going to come together around a single, dominant console for a majority of genres, which is why the Wii gets essentially ignored for many titles/genres driven by third party developers.