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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Industry being stubborn

Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Carl2291 said:
routsounmanman said:

@Carl
When did Nintendo make a on-rails shooter and third parties just flooded the market with it?

Your point is moot, as a business you have to fund unexploited holes in the system's library and try to fill them, go to a spot where the competition is weak, or not present at all.

The Wii Remote has an IR pointer. It's perfect for On-Rails games.

Oh, and how about this.

Actually its perfect for third person shooters and first person shooters, Links Crossbow training wasn't all on rails it was also part TPS.  As for lightgun games, the IR is MUCH better than other options but still not lightgun precision, you can get pretty close when you have games like Ghost Squad that lets you calibrate it, but part of the fun of lightgun games were that you just point and shoot, you didn't need the pointer on screen and because the IR can be off depending on where you're standing/sitting in the room you can't just point and shoot naturally.

It's funny, and maybe due to how long I've played on PC (took me ages to get used to a gamepad for FPS) but I just can't use Wii controls for what I see as a normal, Half Life style FPS.  The nunchuck is great for movement, but holding the Wii mote and pointing just doesn't work for me like using a mouse, or even a gamepad.

What I'd love for FPS is a nunchuck / mouse combination.  That would be the best control option for FPS I think.  Precision movement with variable speed and rapid, precision movement both for small aiming adjustments or large scale swinging around.

There's advantages to all set up's, I've been told I'm a special case but for me FPS games on the Wii are as natural as FPS games on PC, but with the mouse it isn't about having a steady hand and wasd can be a fraction of a second faster.  On the other hand the Wii remote only requires you to move your wrist and can be much quicker as a result while the analog stick is like you said precise you can press a little to inch up you can press all the way to run. 

Personally I tell people to give it a chance, it's much more intuitive than using a gamepad for FPS games, but I chalk most of the "I hate FPS controls on Wii" to the same reason gamepad players say "I hate FPS controls on PC" it only makes sense if you either A suck or B didn't spend time to get down the controls.

Well, I will keep trying, but the challenge for the Wii is that, as you say, people like you seem to be in the minority for using the controls for certain genres.

I find the Wii acceptable for FPS but not superior, and I get the feeling I'm probably in the majority camp with that.  I'm talking here about people actually using the console, etc. not those simply not willing to try.

The other challenge the Wii faces is its specs.  At the end of the day, a lot of FPS players either are transitioning from PC across consoles (like me) or have got used to FPS on Xbox/360/PS3, and the Wii also looks pretty long in the tooth graphically for FPS games at this point in their lifecycle.

I don't think I'm a graphics whore as such, but when, for example, you've played  Half Life 2 on PC when Source was brand new, the Wii does seem limiting for what I expect for those titles.

In the end I feel that the Wii is very good at some stuff, which is why I have one, but that it will never get any broad acceptance across a bunch of popular genres, FPS (particularly online) among them.  As a result, with the huge jump in former PC centric genres like FPS on console, it simply cannot be the one console for all that the PS2 arguably came closet to (never being too hot for FPS and some genres either I wouldn't say PS2 100% covered all the bases).

Therefore the whole idea of why don't people settle on the Wii, or the 360 or the PS3 is a redundant one now.  The customer demographics for consoles are now fragmented this gen, across different consoles and by region too, and that's not going to chance I think.  The Wii will sell the most HW due to who it appeals to and their numbers, and by consequence will sell the most SW, but only of certain genres, with plenty of other genres being favoured elsewhere.

It's a bit of a bugger though as I've never had so much tech as this gen, what with a PC, Wii, PS3, DS and PSP and I still don't even have a 360.

Previously all I felt I needed was a PC and a PS2.

I was meaning I'm a special case at how good I am, which is true, but I still have friends that play their FPS games on 360 and PS3, I brought over CoD4 Wii and the only thing they had issues with was holding their writsts steady.  It has a lot with relearning how you play, lots of console FPS players like to move their hands around while playing, PC players do that less but they still can, with the Wii extra movement can get you killed.

As for the fragmented bases, it's really just making games that appeal to those groups and where you put them, gamers follow good games as you've just proven, you thought PC and PS2 was all that was needed and now you have a Wii, PC, PSP, PS3, and DS, if a company started to just back Wii you'd buy the games there.  To have a market to sell to on a console you gotta give the players a reason to go there.



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MaxwellGT2000 said:

I was meaning I'm a special case at how good I am, which is true, but I still have friends that play their FPS games on 360 and PS3, I brought over CoD4 Wii and the only thing they had issues with was holding their writsts steady.  It has a lot with relearning how you play, lots of console FPS players like to move their hands around while playing, PC players do that less but they still can, with the Wii extra movement can get you killed.

It took a while to learn, but playing Metroid Prime 3 I found that you really need to rest your arm on something to steady yourself.  Your leg, an arm rest, your other arm, just find something.  It makes aiming so much easier.  Once you figure that out, the IR pointer works like a dream.

I'm sure you know this because you've spent some much time with it, but it seems like a lot of others dismiss it without spending the necessary time to actually know.



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MaxwellGT2000 said:
Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
Carl2291 said:
routsounmanman said:

@Carl
When did Nintendo make a on-rails shooter and third parties just flooded the market with it?

Your point is moot, as a business you have to fund unexploited holes in the system's library and try to fill them, go to a spot where the competition is weak, or not present at all.

The Wii Remote has an IR pointer. It's perfect for On-Rails games.

Oh, and how about this.

Actually its perfect for third person shooters and first person shooters, Links Crossbow training wasn't all on rails it was also part TPS.  As for lightgun games, the IR is MUCH better than other options but still not lightgun precision, you can get pretty close when you have games like Ghost Squad that lets you calibrate it, but part of the fun of lightgun games were that you just point and shoot, you didn't need the pointer on screen and because the IR can be off depending on where you're standing/sitting in the room you can't just point and shoot naturally.

It's funny, and maybe due to how long I've played on PC (took me ages to get used to a gamepad for FPS) but I just can't use Wii controls for what I see as a normal, Half Life style FPS.  The nunchuck is great for movement, but holding the Wii mote and pointing just doesn't work for me like using a mouse, or even a gamepad.

What I'd love for FPS is a nunchuck / mouse combination.  That would be the best control option for FPS I think.  Precision movement with variable speed and rapid, precision movement both for small aiming adjustments or large scale swinging around.

There's advantages to all set up's, I've been told I'm a special case but for me FPS games on the Wii are as natural as FPS games on PC, but with the mouse it isn't about having a steady hand and wasd can be a fraction of a second faster.  On the other hand the Wii remote only requires you to move your wrist and can be much quicker as a result while the analog stick is like you said precise you can press a little to inch up you can press all the way to run. 

Personally I tell people to give it a chance, it's much more intuitive than using a gamepad for FPS games, but I chalk most of the "I hate FPS controls on Wii" to the same reason gamepad players say "I hate FPS controls on PC" it only makes sense if you either A suck or B didn't spend time to get down the controls.

Well, I will keep trying, but the challenge for the Wii is that, as you say, people like you seem to be in the minority for using the controls for certain genres.

I find the Wii acceptable for FPS but not superior, and I get the feeling I'm probably in the majority camp with that.  I'm talking here about people actually using the console, etc. not those simply not willing to try.

The other challenge the Wii faces is its specs.  At the end of the day, a lot of FPS players either are transitioning from PC across consoles (like me) or have got used to FPS on Xbox/360/PS3, and the Wii also looks pretty long in the tooth graphically for FPS games at this point in their lifecycle.

I don't think I'm a graphics whore as such, but when, for example, you've played  Half Life 2 on PC when Source was brand new, the Wii does seem limiting for what I expect for those titles.

In the end I feel that the Wii is very good at some stuff, which is why I have one, but that it will never get any broad acceptance across a bunch of popular genres, FPS (particularly online) among them.  As a result, with the huge jump in former PC centric genres like FPS on console, it simply cannot be the one console for all that the PS2 arguably came closet to (never being too hot for FPS and some genres either I wouldn't say PS2 100% covered all the bases).

Therefore the whole idea of why don't people settle on the Wii, or the 360 or the PS3 is a redundant one now.  The customer demographics for consoles are now fragmented this gen, across different consoles and by region too, and that's not going to chance I think.  The Wii will sell the most HW due to who it appeals to and their numbers, and by consequence will sell the most SW, but only of certain genres, with plenty of other genres being favoured elsewhere.

It's a bit of a bugger though as I've never had so much tech as this gen, what with a PC, Wii, PS3, DS and PSP and I still don't even have a 360.

Previously all I felt I needed was a PC and a PS2.

I was meaning I'm a special case at how good I am, which is true, but I still have friends that play their FPS games on 360 and PS3, I brought over CoD4 Wii and the only thing they had issues with was holding their writsts steady.  It has a lot with relearning how you play, lots of console FPS players like to move their hands around while playing, PC players do that less but they still can, with the Wii extra movement can get you killed.

As for the fragmented bases, it's really just making games that appeal to those groups and where you put them, gamers follow good games as you've just proven, you thought PC and PS2 was all that was needed and now you have a Wii, PC, PSP, PS3, and DS, if a company started to just back Wii you'd buy the games there.  To have a market to sell to on a console you gotta give the players a reason to go there.

My point is the Wii launched without the necessary specifications / online to support the level of FPS sales seen on 360/PS3 and PC formerly.

It's not just about the game but the associated technical level of the games.  The Wii, much as I love my Wii, just doesn't have the horespower to support what I and clearly the majority of gamers who like FPS/TPS type titles hold as the standard.  It's just not going to happen.  The Wii is great for Wii Sports, etc. Mario and the like but it's not going to support the likes of Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Uncharted 2, etc. because a key element of those titles is how they look and in some cases the open world they support, and the Wii doesn't have enough power to support them to what is the perceived acceptable level technically.

So the market is fragmented and unchangeably so.  The Wii will support sales of 10M plus for certain titles, and the 360/PS3 are going to support 10M plus sales of other titles, and that isn't going to cross over or change this gen due to the different technical capabilities of the platforms.  That's really my point.  No matter how good an FPS hits the Wii it's never going to affect the set demographic split that now exists.  And to be honest, I'm pretty condifent that the Wii is very unlikely to ever see a superlative FPS that hasn't already been a bigger hit elsewhere.

Heck, for someone like me the Wii is like 10 years out of date for an FPS (although as a PC gamer technically for me the 360 and PS3 are out of date, too).

I'm not really talking about individual titles though, just the major demarcations between the consoles in reference to elements of this post, which is about third party support for the Wii and why in feels like it's not getting the support you'd expect for its install base.  The Wii is going to get haphazard support due to the huge difference in tech specs, the strength of Nintendo's own titles vs third parties, the difference of its controls and the fact that there a certain genres it is by far the weakest install base for which nonetheless are very lucrative genres currently, particularly FPS/TPS such as CoD, Gears, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, etc.

 

 



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Gamerace said:
elmerion said:
Shiro_Legend said:
i cant talk for every ninty fan, but i can talk for myself

i dont care for hardcore games, i dont care for shooters, i dont care for gory games, and i really dont care for stupid minigames collections or retarded gimmicky petz games

i care for FUN GAMES!!!!!!!!!!

and most people thinks in the same way (i suposse)

 

Amen

My thoughts exactly.  

 

If I want a hardcore game I have a HD console for that but generally, I prefer fun games on Wii.

 

If you want to reduce an entire library of games to caricature (consisting of shooters and gory games) that's incredibly silly. I just find it funny that the same fanbase who lambasted "hardcore" gamers for their reaction to games like Wii Music proves themselves to be just as immature and intolerant by saying things like this.



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LordTheNightKnight said:
theprof00 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

Wrong. The truly great HD games do have more than that, the same as any truly great game on any system. Thinking the HD specs makes up for anything is to be creatively lazy as anyone who think it's the tools more than the talent of the craftsman (and don't you dare pretend I'm saying the tools don't matter at all by that).

Uncharted 2?

Uncharted 2 what? I specifically stated great developers go the extra mile no matter the system. I don't think you actually read what I wrote.

I'm trying to explain that what could be a great game on one system, may not be on another. I did read, but I've been trying to say that great ideas happen all the time, and because the wii can't support these types of games, the ones that have dominated the market (outside of first party nintendo games) for the past two gens.

I'm not saying that the wii doesn't have great games, I can give you ten good reasons (exclusive games) that anyone should buy a wii. But you have to understand that a lot of ideas have to be axed because of it's capabilities. Just look at the example with SMG. I think that SMG has the kind of quality and polish and production that people have come to expect as a general idea of a comparable evolutionary upgrade. However, the game's scope, at any one point in time, is small. The areas are small (tiny even) and there are hidden loading screens littered throughout the game. It would have been much harder, nigh impossible, to make it more complex than it is. The amazing effort by Nintendo devs, is what allowed the game to convincingly appear more complex than it was.

I don't know how I can express the idea any more lucidly. Or maybe I'm flat out wrong, but it's not like you can take a game like uncharted2 or halo or anything similar, and convey the same experience. The problem is not the wii's or Nintendo's. It's the perception of a standard, that may or may not exist, that compels these devs to think in a grandiose way, rather than in way that creates games like SMG. But who can blame them. That thinking is what has been the game industry's foundation for the last 10 years.



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"I'm trying to explain that what could be a great game on one system, may not be on another."

"the wii can't support these types of games"

Games that are large scale just means they won't look as good. Since the Wii is more powerful than the system that San Andreas was made for, it obviously can do large scale streaming areas. The details won't all be there, but good level design is not something that magically can't be transferred.

"but it's not like you can take a game like uncharted2 or halo or anything similar, and convey the same experience"

Halo? The graphics won't be as detailed, but come on!

And I know these are first party games, so they won't be done anyway, but you are really getting it wrong here. Unless there is something integral to how the game works that needs the multi-core processors (and of the few of those, one was ironically one of the few actually converted to the Wii), the game will simply have the graphics and some background details reduced compared to the HD versions. See Modern Warfare (not including local multiplayer was a choice (not the best one though), as the online multiplayer works).



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@Riot of Blood, didn't you buy a wii cuz you hoped for innovative gameplay with the mote? Look at what Galaxy did to platforming. Wouldn't you like to see some third party do something that will blow you r mind with a stealth game, third person shooter or action game that couldn't have been done without the wiimote? That's why we complain. Sure, we can get the HD consoles that have the support we're looking for but they don't have the motion stuff(not yet anyway).
@2291, Nintendo doesn't do remakes & sequels in the annoying way the 3rd parties do it. Look @ Metroid Prime trilogy or the Pikmin Remakes. The mote made a difference but look at what the 3rd parties are doin even with the mote. Sequels: Look at the quality of Galaxy, MP3, WSResort, etc. Usually better than the former ones. Then look @ Silent Hill for example. Not as great as the old ones. If Zelda Wii does to OoT what Galaxy did to Mario 64, who's gonna complain about it being a sequel? And yes, I do want new 1st party IPs but at least they do their sequels right.



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Reasonable said:
Reasonable said:

The market is fragmented in terms of what different gamers want/expect and the ability of the current consoles to support them. The upshot for game developers is that it complicates their life horribly and increases the risk of a title failling. The result (sometimes) is confusion and anger, which gets directed back to the consumer (sometimes). Not pretty, but there you go.

Clearly this doesn't apply across the board to every developer, but it's there. The Wii is selling great but it has failed to emulate the PS2 in one crucial way - it is not the consistent, massively dominant home to the majority of console gamers and demographics.  It's success is also based on a distruptive approach - motion controls - which has thrown many developers for a spin as well.  I really like my Wii, but I never, from day one, figured it would or could be be my single console or gaming device.

The 360 (and Xbox before it) has brought in the demographic around high end graphics and online - in a sense I'd argue MS themselves brought disruption to the console market and attracted a new demographic.  The Wii simply doesn't support that well.  The 360 also raised the development cost for big titles and intriduced more of a risk/reward environment for developers and raised the stakes for failure.

The PS3 is very similar to the 360 as well as also introducing it's own piece of disruption, or perhaps evolution would be the better word, a new storage format.

The result is exactly the fragmented market we see today.

A developer has to ask themselves: Do I support Wii and motion controls but then exclude PS3/360?  Do I produce a high end expensive title for PS3/360 and exclude the Wii?  Do I make a game that fills a BR disk and exclude 360/Wii or use multiple disks on 360?  Do I make a cheaper game and put it on Wii, PSN/Live?  Am I going to target motion controls or not?  Do I want to deliver amazing online or a single player or offline coop experience?

Too many conflicting choices and no single platform to aim the majority of them at.

I suspect many developers will actually be glad when Natal/Arc hit as they will very likely even the playing field a bit, allowing a developer to produce a lower cost, fun title using motion controls and stick it on every console - a first for this generation.

One thing I forgot to mention is the clearly different views some (a majority?) of third party developers have of the three consoles based on their manufacutrers, which also has a big impact on their decisions:

Nintendo

There is clearly a level of fear here that Nintendo 'understands' the Wii in terms of motion controls and titles as well has having the dominant franchises for the system - Mario, Zelda, etc.  This, coupled with what has been percieved as weaker sales of certain titles has got a lot of third party developers suspicous of the platform and seems to be giving rise to a perception that your title will sell less and that you're doomed to fail competing with Nintendo themselves.

Clearly, the strong success of the core franchises plus Nintendo's success with titles like Wii Fit and Wii Sports, etc. does nothing to dispel this fear.

Also, while the Wii does sell a lot of third party SW there is no doubt that enough titles seem to perform weaker than expected, particularly in certain genres, to re-enforce this.  In the end Wii owners need to buy enough copies of certain titles to ensure they are seen as popular on the system, and this hasn't happened in certain cases.  Rightly or wrongly I feel some developers ignore or forget the sales/cost ratio and compare sales on Nintendo to sales of similar titles on 360/PS3 without taking into account the lower development costs - i.e. you could make the same return and profit on Wii selling less as your outlay is less.

I suspect many third party developers do wish Nintendo weren't as dominant with SW on their own platform as is the case.

This of course is affected by region, too.  With I think western developers much more cautious of the platform than local ones, although even there I feel a lot of local support is actually focused more on handhelds (Nintendo's own DS range plus the PSP).

MS

In many ways, it's easy to see the lure of the 360 for many third party developers.  MS has by far the weakest first party capability itself, and Halo aside needs third party titles in a huge way on its system.  MS clearly puts a lot of effort into wooing developers as a result of this, which only re-enforces this position.  The 360 sells a lot of SW particularly in the West and particularly in the English speaking territories - something that makes it very attractive to a lot of Western third party developers.  It also has a good SDK and, for Western developers turning from PC to consoles makes for a very easy transition target.  To put it simply, if you want to make a title, particularly a Western orientated FPS or action title, the 360/PC makes a very appealing combination.

The main downside of the 360 is cost of development and competition in the core genres.  Producing a good HD game takes money and if you're going to produce one in the popular genres on 360, particularly FPS/TPS with online MP, then it better be good and original or it could fail vs the plentiful competition.

The other downside I feel is that some developers are uncertain about the popularity of broader genres on 360 vs the core action/online titles.

360 is also attractive for Live, which can provide a channel for lower cost games to reach a more niche audience.

Finally, the 360 has been (perhaps still is) attractive to Japanese developers wanting a slice of the currently popular West.  Although clearly results for more Japanese centric titles on the platform may give pause to that being exclusive in nature.

 

Sony

Sony presently lies between Nintendo and MS I think for a lot of third party developers.

Sony has a strong first party development capability, and does own some key franchises in the same manner as Nintendo.  But historically it's a platform that's been host to massive third party success, and there is no doubt that many third parties are comfortable in principle with supporting the PS3 as a platform, particularly since the platform 'found its feet' and started selling most third party titles in comparable ratio to the 360 (WW that is, clearly it varies by region).

Where it differs from the 360 is that it has (still?) historically been tougher to develop for, and it's harder to produce a good 360/PS3 or 360/PS3/PC title than a good 360/PC title.  For developers moving from PC to console support this has been a particular hurdle, and it's no surprise to me that initially the 360 got all the love and even now still has sole console focus from developers like Valve.

However, I think for most developers that particular hump is fading, and like the 360 the PS3 is seen as a fairly safe bet for solid sales if you produce a good title.  It's weakness for developers is that in US/UK core titles sell less than 360 although this has evened out in ratio.  On the other hand there is a perception, I believe, that a broader spectrum of genres can sell well on the PS3, making it seem more appealing I believe to developers looking at titles outside the core 360 genres or to spread the risk of such titles across both platforms.

PS3 also has PSN, which is an attractive channel for the right titles.

Finally, it appeals to Western developers as a safe bet to extend sales on top of 360 while it clearly offers a better chance of penetration in Japan than 360 (although this is a lesser priority I think for a lot of Western developers).  Clearly it is now a fairly safe bet for Japanese developers as titles now sell well enough locally plus the PS3 offers access to the Western market now in a similar manner to 360.

 

In the end, I believe currently the PS3/360 platform just seems more appealing to a lot of third party developers from a potential sales/competition perspective, with the main downside being cost of development.

The Wii is attractive for potential sales and cost of development, but right or wrong a lot of developers see it as being far riskier from a competition (with Nintendo) and breadth of genre perspective and unless that changes it does seem likely the Wii will never see the dominance in third party support the PS2 did before it.

 

I just wanted to add:

Wii

Is probably the hardest console to develop for adequately given the massive churn rate of developers in the industry. Most developers, especially the smaller ones which haven't made a name for themselves would not have many staff which are familiar with the style of graphics hardware. Its quite likely they haven't touched non programmable shaders and they aren't good enough to design a game within the constraints of a more limited system.

Xbox 360

I just wanted to add that I've heard talk from several developers at Beyond3D that the difference between Xbox Live and PSN for downloadable games are quite significant in terms of sales. This explains why the Xbox 360 recieves a lot more exclusive content.

PS3

For some reason the console seems to have games which are buggier than the Xbox 360 counterparts, im not sure why though.

HD consoles

The cost of development is higher, but the bigger issue is that the competition is absolutely brutal. A lot of good developers can struggle to make games with market appeal and in the end have to eat their own shirt. It seems if you're not getting about about 82/83% metacritic you may as well go home and ideally to be profitable a project likely has to be in the 85-89 range minimum to secure future titles in a series. A lot of developers don't understand how to market their games and create excitement about their products and in a year with a lot of content its very easy to get lost in the shuffle if your name isn't Epic, Valve, Bethesda etc.

 



Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:

I was meaning I'm a special case at how good I am, which is true, but I still have friends that play their FPS games on 360 and PS3, I brought over CoD4 Wii and the only thing they had issues with was holding their writsts steady.  It has a lot with relearning how you play, lots of console FPS players like to move their hands around while playing, PC players do that less but they still can, with the Wii extra movement can get you killed.

As for the fragmented bases, it's really just making games that appeal to those groups and where you put them, gamers follow good games as you've just proven, you thought PC and PS2 was all that was needed and now you have a Wii, PC, PSP, PS3, and DS, if a company started to just back Wii you'd buy the games there.  To have a market to sell to on a console you gotta give the players a reason to go there.

My point is the Wii launched without the necessary specifications / online to support the level of FPS sales seen on 360/PS3 and PC formerly.

It's not just about the game but the associated technical level of the games.  The Wii, much as I love my Wii, just doesn't have the horespower to support what I and clearly the majority of gamers who like FPS/TPS type titles hold as the standard.  It's just not going to happen.  The Wii is great for Wii Sports, etc. Mario and the like but it's not going to support the likes of Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Uncharted 2, etc. because a key element of those titles is how they look and in some cases the open world they support, and the Wii doesn't have enough power to support them to what is the perceived acceptable level technically.

So the market is fragmented and unchangeably so.  The Wii will support sales of 10M plus for certain titles, and the 360/PS3 are going to support 10M plus sales of other titles, and that isn't going to cross over or change this gen due to the different technical capabilities of the platforms.  That's really my point.  No matter how good an FPS hits the Wii it's never going to affect the set demographic split that now exists.  And to be honest, I'm pretty condifent that the Wii is very unlikely to ever see a superlative FPS that hasn't already been a bigger hit elsewhere.

Heck, for someone like me the Wii is like 10 years out of date for an FPS (although as a PC gamer technically for me the 360 and PS3 are out of date, too).

I'm not really talking about individual titles though, just the major demarcations between the consoles in reference to elements of this post, which is about third party support for the Wii and why in feels like it's not getting the support you'd expect for its install base.  The Wii is going to get haphazard support due to the huge difference in tech specs, the strength of Nintendo's own titles vs third parties, the difference of its controls and the fact that there a certain genres it is by far the weakest install base for which nonetheless are very lucrative genres currently, particularly FPS/TPS such as CoD, Gears, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, etc.

 

 

Uh you can scale down most games, though that's a terrible way to do things as making good looking games they need to be built from the ground up, but its not like we didn't have good looking atmospheric games prior to this gen, hell 2D games can have a shit ton of it and look good. 

But as for open world games, they did those last gen too, Treyarch made Spiderman Web of Shadows on PS3, 360, and Wii and the Wii version while a little lower res and fewer polygons, it WAS the same game, many other developers could do the same, but they don't and its obvious that it doesn't take as much to make that Wii game, so why not?  And again this is what has many people questioning.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

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MaxwellGT2000 said:
Reasonable said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:
 

I was meaning I'm a special case at how good I am, which is true, but I still have friends that play their FPS games on 360 and PS3, I brought over CoD4 Wii and the only thing they had issues with was holding their writsts steady.  It has a lot with relearning how you play, lots of console FPS players like to move their hands around while playing, PC players do that less but they still can, with the Wii extra movement can get you killed.

As for the fragmented bases, it's really just making games that appeal to those groups and where you put them, gamers follow good games as you've just proven, you thought PC and PS2 was all that was needed and now you have a Wii, PC, PSP, PS3, and DS, if a company started to just back Wii you'd buy the games there.  To have a market to sell to on a console you gotta give the players a reason to go there.

My point is the Wii launched without the necessary specifications / online to support the level of FPS sales seen on 360/PS3 and PC formerly.

It's not just about the game but the associated technical level of the games.  The Wii, much as I love my Wii, just doesn't have the horespower to support what I and clearly the majority of gamers who like FPS/TPS type titles hold as the standard.  It's just not going to happen.  The Wii is great for Wii Sports, etc. Mario and the like but it's not going to support the likes of Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Uncharted 2, etc. because a key element of those titles is how they look and in some cases the open world they support, and the Wii doesn't have enough power to support them to what is the perceived acceptable level technically.

So the market is fragmented and unchangeably so.  The Wii will support sales of 10M plus for certain titles, and the 360/PS3 are going to support 10M plus sales of other titles, and that isn't going to cross over or change this gen due to the different technical capabilities of the platforms.  That's really my point.  No matter how good an FPS hits the Wii it's never going to affect the set demographic split that now exists.  And to be honest, I'm pretty condifent that the Wii is very unlikely to ever see a superlative FPS that hasn't already been a bigger hit elsewhere.

Heck, for someone like me the Wii is like 10 years out of date for an FPS (although as a PC gamer technically for me the 360 and PS3 are out of date, too).

I'm not really talking about individual titles though, just the major demarcations between the consoles in reference to elements of this post, which is about third party support for the Wii and why in feels like it's not getting the support you'd expect for its install base.  The Wii is going to get haphazard support due to the huge difference in tech specs, the strength of Nintendo's own titles vs third parties, the difference of its controls and the fact that there a certain genres it is by far the weakest install base for which nonetheless are very lucrative genres currently, particularly FPS/TPS such as CoD, Gears, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, etc.

 

 

Uh you can scale down most games, though that's a terrible way to do things as making good looking games they need to be built from the ground up, but its not like we didn't have good looking atmospheric games prior to this gen, hell 2D games can have a shit ton of it and look good. 

But as for open world games, they did those last gen too, Treyarch made Spiderman Web of Shadows on PS3, 360, and Wii and the Wii version while a little lower res and fewer polygons, it WAS the same game, many other developers could do the same, but they don't and its obvious that it doesn't take as much to make that Wii game, so why not?  And again this is what has many people questioning.

The reason why not is they don't think they'll sell well enough on Wii.  I think they're right.  I haven't bought CoD on Wii, nor Dead Space nor do I have any interest in doing so.  Clearly the developers think the majority of owners don't have enough interest in a scaled down Assassin's Creed or whatever on the Wii, which is why it simply won't get support for a lot of titles/genres.

What I do want on Wii is more quality titles that exploit what the Wii is very good at, not what it's rather weak at.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...